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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:48 pm
 


During the federal Conservative leadership race, Kellie Leitch has gotten more attention than most candidates, due in large part to her proposal to screen new immigrants for “Canadian values”. The proposal has gotten Leitch a lot of support, but it’s also gotten her a lot of criticism from people who say that the proposal is racist. White ethnic nationalists have even latched onto Leitch’s campaign, in much the same way as their American counterparts have to President Donald Trump. Since then, Leitch has denied that her campaign is based on ethnic nationalism. Instead, she says, it is based on civic values. Her campaign website indicates that the “Canadian values” she promotes include gender equality, freedom of religion, freedom and tolerance.

The support Leitch has gained for her proposal shows that is that the issue of national values and identity is still a very heated one in Canada. It also shows that many Canadians do not agree with Justin Trudeau’s recent declaration that Canada has no “core identity” and is the world’s first “post-national state”. It would be especially surprising to many Francophones and Indigenous people, since many people in both these groups have insisted on their distinct place in Canada and the fact that they are not in the same boat as immigrants from other parts of the world.

The debate over what exactly our shared values are, how multiculturalism should work, and how much new arrivals are expected to change to fit into our society, is something many people still feel strongly about. However, English-speaking Canada doesn’t talk about it much, possibly because people are concerned about being called racist if they question the value of open borders. Quebec is about the only place that has discussed it openly, with its recent debate on “reasonable accommodation” and how immigrants should adapt to their new home’s core values.

The support for Leitch and Trump shows that, despite the all the talk about open borders and a global community, many people still see themselves as citizens of their countries rather than citizens of the world. National identities are still important to many people, as are the ideas of shared histories and identities. What many people forget is that national identity is not a static thing. It can change and grow just like anything else.

In Canada, we continue to expect people to speak English and/or French, but we see that the experiences of the Black communities of Atlantic Canada or Asian communities in B.C. are just as important to our history as the experiences of people of ethnic British or French descent. New immigrants bring their cuisine, their art and their music, evolving Canada’s culture in the process. They have as much right to call themselves Anglophone or Francophone Canadians as people whose ancestors came here 200 years ago.

Instead of criticizing people who express concern about accommodation and shared values, we would be better served by listening to their concerns. These issues are far from resolved in Canada.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:16 pm
 


Why because someone attached a buzzword, which of course means the opposite of what it claims?
If they're shared values, they're by definition shared and therefore discussion is moot. The only logical reason you'd want to discuss them is because you don't share some values that you think are shared.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:59 am
 


Kellie Leitch and Kevin O'Leary are the reasons I have lost faith in the Conservative Party. :(


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:09 am
 


With some of what goes on here between strangers being so grotesque sometimes I understand better now why families in the US break up when spouses vote differently or someone ruins a family gathering by bringing up politics and a massive fight breaks out. :|


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:03 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Kellie Leitch and Kevin O'Leary are the reasons I have lost faith in the Conservative Party. :(


Neither are conservatives. Like Trump and those that support him they are reactionaries. Conservatives,as the name implies, are about slow, well thought out change/progress.

They are no better than the radical lefties they claim to oppose,and should be treated with the same level of derision.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:03 am
 


Double :?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:11 am
 


ShepherdsDog wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Kellie Leitch and Kevin O'Leary are the reasons I have lost faith in the Conservative Party. :(


Neither are conservatives. Like Trump and those that support him they are reactionaries. Conservatives,as the name implies, are about slow, well thought out change/progress.

They are no better than the radical lefties they claim to oppose,and should be treated with the same level of derision.


That the Conservative Party continues to let them run for leadership knowing this is what disheartens me. They should look at their platforms, go 8O , refund them their money and tell them to keep their bigotry to themselves.

But they don't. This tells me that the party leadership is fine with it. Something I am not.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:31 am
 


Canadian politics needs a shake up. Just as the social conazis hijacked the Republican Party, so to have they done so to the Conservative movement here in Canada.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:29 am
 


~


Last edited by Lemmy on Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:35 am
 


Odd that by turning this into some kind of a value issue Leitch ends up inadvertently responsible for damaging the entirely logical, reasonable, and ethical argument that a state absolutely does have the sole sovereign right (and duty too) to decide who is and who isn't allowed to live in it.

Trump-ize an issue in order to curry favour with populist wankers = turning it into an automatic ethical/moral/legal loss for what you say you're trying to defend. :|


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:29 pm
 


Quote:
It also shows that many Canadians do not agree with Justin Trudeau’s recent declaration that Canada has no “core identity” and is the world’s first “post-national state”. It would be especially surprising to many Francophones and Indigenous people since many people in both these groups have insisted on their distinct place in Canada and the fact that they are not in the same boat as immigrants from other parts of the world.


Those groups consider themselves to be "pre-national" - they identify as having Pre-Canadian identity, which they do not share with other Canadians.


The debate about 'shared values' begins with, and ends with actions. We are not thought police. To the extent that a persons values aren't a threat or infringement on others, they are nobody's business. That applies to "old stock" Canadians as well as immigrants. Nobody says you have to like people of other races or religions, but we don't let you hang a sign on your business that says "whites only" because at that point you are infringing. Of course, the same goes for immigrants when it comes their view of others, including women, gays, etc. Just the same, they cannot infringe on others others.

"Reasonable Accommodation" is accommodation a practices that is not really and infringement, for example when your establishment has a no hats rule but must allow a Sikh employee to wear his turban. You're not really being burdened by the turban therefore you're not really being infringed upon in a material way.

I don't have any problem with "gender equality, freedom of religion, freedom and tolerance." although these have always been favourite targets for many conservatives. If we're going to develop some kind of test to accurately measure a person along those values and declare anyone who doesn't measure up "un-Canadian", does that mean we can deport any Canadian conservatives who fail the test? If so, I might be on board.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:42 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Quote:
It also shows that many Canadians do not agree with Justin Trudeau’s recent declaration that Canada has no “core identity” and is the world’s first “post-national state”. It would be especially surprising to many Francophones and Indigenous people since many people in both these groups have insisted on their distinct place in Canada and the fact that they are not in the same boat as immigrants from other parts of the world.


Those groups consider themselves to be "pre-national" - they identify as having Pre-Canadian identity, which they do not share with other Canadians.


The debate about 'shared values' begins with, and ends with actions. We are not thought police. To the extent that a persons values aren't a threat or infringement on others, they are nobody's business. That applies to "old stock" Canadians as well as immigrants. Nobody says you have to like people of other races or religions, but we don't let you hang a sign on your business that says "whites only" because at that point you are infringing. Of course, the same goes for immigrants when it comes their view of others, including women, gays, etc. Just the same, they cannot infringe on others others.

"Reasonable Accommodation" is accommodation a practices that is not really and infringement, for example when your establishment has a no hats rule but must allow a Sikh employee to wear his turban. You're not really being burdened by the turban therefore you're not really being infringed upon in a material way.

I don't have any problem with "gender equality, freedom of religion, freedom and tolerance." although these have always been favourite targets for many conservatives. If we're going to develop some kind of test to accurately measure a person along those values and declare anyone who doesn't measure up "un-Canadian", does that mean we can deport any Canadian conservatives who fail the test? If so, I might be on board.


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