[ShepherdsDog]

So do you put lieberries into liebarrels to make a fine whine?

[BeaverFever]

No lies....and do you feel that all criticism is whining, or just that some people are above any criticism? Otherwise your post is not much of a response to anything.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever wrote:

Update to the Idiot-for-Mayor File:

Ford brother's latest brain-fart is to unilaterally pull out of the thirty-year joint Federal-Provincial-Municipal waterfront redevelopment plan, already 10 years old, that has used award-winning urban design and planning firms and extensive public consultation to gradually remake the central Toronto waterfront. Toronto is lucky to have such a large natural resource as Great Lakes waterfront at the foot of its downtown core and its redevelopment must be planned carefully to enrich the city. The current plan calls for a stunning waterfront park, mixed residential and retail space, environmental reclamation and much more. It is brilliant and has been planned by recognized experts from across North America.

How far do you have your head up Millers ass?

The plan that's 10 years old and has done what?

Made plans.

Wow.

How much did those ideas cost us? How much has Waterfront Toronto blown already on nothing?

1 billion dollars for some ideas and a stupid model of what things "could" look like. Another $230 million has been racked up on technical consultants, architects, master plans and environmental approvals and a further $45.2 million on corporate costs, including H.R. and management consultants.

15 of the 70 staff were part of the $100,000-plus club last year. CEO John Campbell made $352,531 and v-p of government relations Marisa Piattelli earned $223,518.

[BeaverFever]

OnTheIce wrote:

The plan that's 10 years old and has done what?

Made plans.

Wow.

Been to the waterfront lately? HTO park, Sherbourne Commons, Sugar Beach, CORUS enterainment complex, George Brown College campus, wave deck are completed and Harbourfront Centre renovations are already underway.

And Waterfront TO is a 3-way project that INCLUDES the Federal "Harper Government" so stop trying to make this about Miller.

And yes, from the start it was set up as a 30-year redevelopment plan, to spread the costs over mulitiple years and ensure that there was public consultation and that plans for permanent development remained consistent with values and needs of the city- something sorely lacking in Ford's closed-door napkin plan.

OnTheIce wrote:

How much did those ideas cost us? How much has Waterfront Toronto blown already on nothing?...blah blah blah wasting money

I guess you haven't been to the waterfront lately, it's clearyl not nothing:

Waterfront Toronto wrote:

To date Waterfront Toronto has concluded public and private sector development deals valued at $1.475 billion, far exceeding the $965 million of public funding spent to date.

Investments to date:


•$219.6 million in municipal infrastructure, utilities and flood protection primarily in East Bayfront and West Don Lands. By building this infrastructure, 26 hectares of land is serviced and unlocked for development.

• $113.6 million in land acquisition to assemble development blocks for future private sector investment.

• $161 million to create and/or improve 17 parks or public spaces including building Canada’s Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Common, the water’s edge promenade, wavedecks, sports fields, revitalized trails and waterfront parks in Scarborough and Etobicoke.

• $230.1 million for development approvals, master planning, and environmental approvals which has unlocked $10 billion in potential private sector investment in waterfront revitalization.

• $45.2 million has been invested in corporate overhead during the past 10 year, which is 4.7 percent of total spending to date. The majority of this has gone to salaries, rent and IT expense. Just over $4 million has gone towards consulting services.

• In addition to the $769.5 million, a further $195.4 million of waterfront revitalization funding has been utilized for government directed investments including $130 million for Go Transit expansion and $25 million for the Union Pearson rail link, and $9.3 million for waterfront secretariats staff salary costs (Federal and City) and other City staff resources

Ford's plan would require about $270 M in infrastructre costs, such as relocating a power station and building new water/sewage lines. The Ferris Wheel is expected to cost $300-million to manufacture and install. Football stadium uncosted. Monorail uncosted. So don't think that his plan costs nothing.

OnTheIce wrote:

15 of the 70 staff were part of the $100,000-plus club last year. CEO John Campbell made $352,531 and v-p of government relations Marisa Piattelli earned $223,518.

What the hell do you think a competent CEO and VP is going to earn? That's still well below private sector scale. Let me guess, you think they should have hired someone with a high-school education to run a $1-billion company for $15 bucks an hour? The $100k list is stupid and outdated; a MBA grad can expect to earn more than that his first year on the job in any organization. Yes, large organizations that handle alot of money require people with special experience and education to run them. Those people don't come cheap. What do you want?

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever wrote:

OnTheIce wrote:

The plan that's 10 years old and has done what?

Made plans.

Wow.

Been to the waterfront lately? HTO park, Sherbourne Commons, Sugar Beach, CORUS enterainment complex, George Brown College campus, wave deck are completed and Harbourfront Centre renovations are already underway.

And Waterfront TO is a 3-way project that INCLUDES the Federal "Harper Government" so stop trying to make this about Miller.

And yes, from the start it was set up as a 30-year redevelopment plan, to spread the costs over mulitiple years and ensure that there was public consultation and that plans for permanent development remained consistent with values and needs of the city- something sorely lacking in Ford's closed-door napkin plan.

OnTheIce wrote:

How much did those ideas cost us? How much has Waterfront Toronto blown already on nothing?...blah blah blah wasting money

I guess you haven't been to the waterfront lately, it's clearyl not nothing:

Waterfront Toronto wrote:

To date Waterfront Toronto has concluded public and private sector development deals valued at $1.475 billion, far exceeding the $965 million of public funding spent to date.

Investments to date:


•$219.6 million in municipal infrastructure, utilities and flood protection primarily in East Bayfront and West Don Lands. By building this infrastructure, 26 hectares of land is serviced and unlocked for development.

• $113.6 million in land acquisition to assemble development blocks for future private sector investment.

• $161 million to create and/or improve 17 parks or public spaces including building Canada’s Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Common, the water’s edge promenade, wavedecks, sports fields, revitalized trails and waterfront parks in Scarborough and Etobicoke.

• $230.1 million for development approvals, master planning, and environmental approvals which has unlocked $10 billion in potential private sector investment in waterfront revitalization.

• $45.2 million has been invested in corporate overhead during the past 10 year, which is 4.7 percent of total spending to date. The majority of this has gone to salaries, rent and IT expense. Just over $4 million has gone towards consulting services.

• In addition to the $769.5 million, a further $195.4 million of waterfront revitalization funding has been utilized for government directed investments including $130 million for Go Transit expansion and $25 million for the Union Pearson rail link, and $9.3 million for waterfront secretariats staff salary costs (Federal and City) and other City staff resources

Ford's plan would require about $270 M in infrastructre costs, such as relocating a power station and building new water/sewage lines. The Ferris Wheel is expected to cost $300-million to manufacture and install. Football stadium uncosted. Monorail uncosted. So don't think that his plan costs nothing.

OnTheIce wrote:

15 of the 70 staff were part of the $100,000-plus club last year. CEO John Campbell made $352,531 and v-p of government relations Marisa Piattelli earned $223,518.

What the hell do you think a competent CEO and VP is going to earn? That's still well below private sector scale. Let me guess, you think they should have hired someone with a high-school education to run a $1-billion company for $15 bucks an hour? The $100k list is stupid and outdated; a MBA grad can expect to earn more than that his first year on the job in any organization. Yes, large organizations that handle alot of money require people with special experience and education to run them. Those people don't come cheap. What do you want?

Let's agree to disagree.

Miller and people like you made Toronto a joke and in a financial mess.

[BeaverFever]

No, that's Mike Harris made Toronto a financial mess...the city has not been able to balance its books since his massive downloading and amalgamation scheme.

The city has definitely been a joke since at least Lastman, if not the days of "Toronto the Good" when you could barely get a drink after 6 pm . Quit pretending otherwise.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever wrote:

No, that's Mike Harris made Toronto a financial mess...the city has not been able to balance its books since his massive downloading and amalgamation scheme.

The city has definitely been a joke since at least Lastman, if not the days of "Toronto the Good" when you could barely get a drink after 6 pm . Quit pretending otherwise.

Gotta love how you place the blame on the right of centre politicians, but NDP'ers like Miller and his brutal financial management get a pass.

And yet you ignore the screw ups by Rae, Chretien/Martin, etc that affected the City greatly.

Had they been conservatives, surely you'd mention them. But no good Liberal or NDP'er would ever do anything to hurt Toronto.

Good luck with your massive tax increase. Can't wait to hear the crying!

[BeaverFever]

Chretien, Martin are both responsible for Federal downloading, and from withdrawing from the various ad-hoc municipal programs they happenend to funding at the time, but the one who holds the city in its hands is the Provincial government....more so than the Mayor in some respects.

Rae didn't do anything helpful for Toronto during the 10 seconds he was in office, but his text-book recessionary reduction of municipal transfer payments was mild compared to the slash-and-burn Harris years. And the city was able to balance its books during his the tenure.

Downloading in particular is the problem, because while budgets rise and fall from year to year, and some governments will be more generaous than others, Harris downloading is still with us, long after Mike was thrown out...it was a permanent and complete reconstruction of municipal responisibilites and functions and it was massive in scale. And he certainly didn't do so reluctantly, he was ideloligcally attuned to the cuts and re-formation of public service. He made no apologies and expressed no regrets and made no promises that this was "temporary". He intended to make them permanent and so far he has succeeded.