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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:32 pm
 


Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Then why care anymore. If both sides are all disgruntled and up-in-arms over it, maybe seperation is the best choice for both sides.


I think that's what many have been saying here.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:32 pm
 


Xort Xort:
If people anywhere want to keep a language around, then it's upto the people to do just that. You don't use force of arms (government ability to create and enforce laws) to keep it around.


Oi... :roll:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:45 pm
 


Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Then why care anymore. If both sides are all disgruntled and up-in-arms over it, maybe seperation is the best choice for both sides.


That's just it, it isn't the best choice (at least for Quebec). They'll lose access to so many little side benefits from being in Confederation it's onerous to list them all.

If the '95 referendum question had been phrased a little more clearly, YES wouldn't have come so close to winning. The YES side also tossed out unsubstantiated claims regarding how things would work between Canada and Quebec post-YES vote, membership in international organizations, use of Federal assets, etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:48 pm
 


If the Quebec voters elect the PQ then perhaps it's time we all have a say on whether we want Quebec to stay. I think English Canada is tired of the crap.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:41 pm
 


RUEZ RUEZ:
Here's an example that I can think of that might fit. In Quebec, they clamp down on who can take English schooling. Now they want to clamp down even further. Yet in BC, the furthest province from Quebec every year they are opening more and more French immersion schools. The only thing that keeps a student from attending is available space. Quebecers need to face the facts, English is the language. You might be able to slow it's spread but you won't stop it, and ignoring that is just hurting your province.


But that just comes back to my original point. How would we, as English-speakers, react if we were just bluntly told that French is the language and we should just learn to speak it and shut up, even in the only province where we were the majority? Should we just give up our language and everything related to it if our province was an English-speaking majority? Again, just how differently would Alberta, Ontario or Nova Scotia react if they were in that position?

As for clamping down on who can take English schooling, the problem is that Quebec now has to figure out how to maintain both its French character while also accommodating the English minority in its midst. Guys like René Lévesque and Claude Ryan have tried to strike a better balance, but unfortunately the radical jackasses, the "Patriote" types who protest on Canada Day, end up hijacking the process and tar everyone in Quebec with the same brush. Same thing with bilingualism in the public service-it ends up being taken too far, as Andyt suggested in another thread.

As an Albertan, I know the feeling, particularly when everyone in my province ends up looking like greedy pricks who don't care about the environment or helping the rest of Canada just because of the actions of a few assholes.

saturn_656 saturn_656:

That's the way its supposed to be. The other nine provinces are supposed to be good little troopers and bring in bilingualism to their governments, schools, etc all while Quebec continues to wage its war against English.

Quebec is the only province that is officially unilingual.


Wrong, wrong, wrong. Quebec is the only province that is unilingually French. Most of the other provinces are unilingually English, including my home province of Alberta. New Brunswick is the only bilingual province.

The catch with bilingualism is the fact that, without it in all the provinces, what you end up with is basically a call for English-speaking Quebecers to receive special treatment available to no one else in Canada. One linguistic minority still ends up getting favored over all others in Canada, only the special treatment stands out even further than bilingualism supposedly does.

Gunnair Gunnair:
Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:
Then why care anymore. If both sides are all disgruntled and up-in-arms over it, maybe seperation is the best choice for both sides.


I think that's what many have been saying here.


I think what this really indicates is just how deeply entrenched the misunderstanding on both sides has gotten over the last 30 years. Both sides actually have a lot of valid points, but how many of us have actually tried to see the other side's point of view. Francophone Quebecers aren't necessarily any better in this regard-how many of them have tried to see just why so many of us are fed up with the issue?

There's actually much more to the issue than most people realize, and I plan to address it at a future date.

For now, though, let me summarize it all by saying something that I'm sure many of you will agree with me on, even if you haven't agreed with anything else so far:

If this country breaks up, it's going to be because of Pierre Trudeau. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:55 pm
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Oi... :roll:

Yet another well reasoned and moving argument.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:47 am
 


JaredMilne JaredMilne:
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Quebec is the only province that is unilingually French. Most of the other provinces are unilingually English, including my home province of Alberta. New Brunswick is the only bilingual province.


Wrong, wrong, and... well you get the point.

No provinces, other than Quebec and New Brunswick, have official languages. No province in Canada has enshrined, in law, English as its only official language.

Try and prove me wrong.

$1:
The catch with bilingualism is the fact that, without it in all the provinces, what you end up with is basically a call for English-speaking Quebecers to receive special treatment available to no one else in Canada. One linguistic minority still ends up getting favored over all others in Canada, only the special treatment stands out even further than bilingualism supposedly does.


Bilingualism in Quebec? Let's see if the can get them to stop trying to drive their anglo minority to extinction before we get to talking about Quebec bringing in bilingualism.

No province in Canada legislates against French the way Quebec legislates against English. New Brunswick is fully bilingual. Ontario offers bilingual services in areas where the francophone population warrants it. Manitoba guarantees its government services availability in French.

There are three anglo majority provinces that are light years ahead of Quebec on the bilingualism file. Hell even the other six anglo provinces are still ahead because they haven't legislated the primacy of English over French, nor have they enacted laws restricting who can attend French language schools, nor do they forbid the use of French in the workplace, nor do they restrict the usage of French on business signage....

I'm sure you're getting the point by now.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:07 am
 


Well, according to this list, safety lvl is miserable. Part of it is not full. Full list of advantages is here: Image


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:04 am
 


Gunnair Gunnair:
Xort Xort:
If people anywhere want to keep a language around, then it's upto the people to do just that. You don't use force of arms (government ability to create and enforce laws) to keep it around.


Oi... :roll:


He does make a point. If we kept this up, we'd all be speaking Cree, Inuktitut and Ojibway.

If Quebec had of kept their original language, they'd all be speaking Mohawk.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:18 am
 


Xort Xort:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Oi... :roll:

Yet another well reasoned and moving argument.


Not much more to add when you roll in dropping dumb bombs into the conversation.

It's more embarrassment for you than anything else.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:19 am
 


OnTheIce OnTheIce:
Gunnair Gunnair:
Xort Xort:
If people anywhere want to keep a language around, then it's upto the people to do just that. You don't use force of arms (government ability to create and enforce laws) to keep it around.


Oi... :roll:


He does make a point. If we kept this up, we'd all be speaking Cree, Inuktitut and Ojibway.

If Quebec had of kept their original language, they'd all be speaking Mohawk.


Yeah, it's more the force of arms addition to the point that is just plain dumb.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:19 am
 


If the situation was reversed, we'd all be speaking French, Quebec would be the "only one" speaking English, and bitch about that.

Some are just not happy if they can't bitch. I never hear any bs coming out of NB. Just sayin'.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:21 am
 


JaredMilne JaredMilne:

As for the hockey thing, what happens if the Leafs, the Canucks or the Flames were to hire someone who only spoke good French or Swedish? Wouldn't the fans and media of those English-majority regions want these people to speak good English before they were hired?

No, I'd want them to be able to communicate effectively with their players. Who gives a fuck what language a coach speaks? Well, besides Quebec.
As long as the coach is competent and the players can understand him, that's all that matters.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:58 am
 


JaredMilne JaredMilne:
As for the hockey thing, what happens if the Leafs, the Canucks or the Flames were to hire someone who only spoke good French or Swedish? Wouldn't the fans and media of those English-majority regions want these people to speak good English before they were hired?

If we look beyond hockey to baseball, Major League Baseball rosters are filled with players who can't speak English. No one seems to care.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:14 am
 


desertdude desertdude:
IMO if the situation was reversed the French are such conceited bastards they would never allow a English province in the first place.


+5

Nailed it! :lol:


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