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CKA Super Elite
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:06 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Fascism doesn't require a dictatorship to function. Neither does communism or any other system.

BUT...governance models in the socialist/left spectrum tend to facilitate dictatorships. :idea:

Venezuela is a fine example of a country that freely elected a socialist regime which then morphed over the years into a dictatorship.

But it wasn't a clear dictatorship even all through the Hugo Chavez years. Chavez actually managed to get legislative and judicial support for most of his acts.

Any form of government tends towards a dictatorship, when the government has too much power.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:08 pm
 


Precisely. R=UP

But because socialist spectrum governments require concentrated government power they tend to facilitate dictatorships.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:00 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Fascism doesn't require a dictatorship to function. Neither does communism or any other system.

BUT...governance models in the socialist/left spectrum tend to facilitate dictatorships. :idea: .


Not when you look at western countries...the “socialist/left” like scandinavia are some of the most democratic wheras the Eastern European countries are more Right wing and less democratic.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:38 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
BUT...governance models in the socialist/left spectrum tend to facilitate dictatorships. :idea:

And governance models in the right spectrum tend to facilitate anarchy, which is also bad. It's almost like *gasp* extremes are fucking stupid.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:08 am
 


Tricks wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
BUT...governance models in the socialist/left spectrum tend to facilitate dictatorships. :idea:

And governance models in the right spectrum tend to facilitate anarchy, which is also bad. It's almost like *gasp* extremes are fucking stupid.


The problem is that the extremes are sucking up all the oxygen in the (virtual) room.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:28 am
 


The media follows the extremes by default and the politicians by default follow the media's lead in development of policy. It wasn't always this way - prior generations had the benefit of the extremes being seen as socially abhorrent by most of the population. That changed when the media saw the nutcases as the best vehicle to use to increase their ratings/paper circulation, instead of the culture-wrecking corrosive agents they really are. No one, for example, from our grandparents generation bothered to "understand" the viewpoints of fascists or Nazis. They automatically knew those things had to be beaten down and suppressed because of the murderous mayhem they would cause if given any sort of social acceptance. Now though, with the generation that fought those things all but gone? The memories of not tolerating certain things, more importantly the reasons for not tolerating them, are gone too.

The media has no real interest in historical perspective, even though they're the agency best suited for proper recollection of history to teach these lessons. These days with their focus on the next big extreme to come along that they can make their own money off of with their coverage, they're more likely to let something happen just to see what happens, to allow catastrophe to occur in order for them to get their own ratings/sales/clicks pay-off out of it. I'd say the Canadian media was guided by this kind of thinking as far back as the early 1970's, given the way they went along with the "coolness" of Trudeau the Elder, just to see what would happen. Mirror this in the US media of 2015 and 2016, almost all of whom (especially CNN) abandoned their alleged duty of journalism and reporting when it came to doing any sort of comprehensive examination of Donald Trump - they effectively let Trump happen just so they could get whatever increased monetary/ratings blowback resulted from his ascent and triumph, even though they were the ones most likely to understand what an absolute walking disaster he was and is. The so-called "news" is just another part of the daily bread & circuses where coolness, perceived edginess, and incessant chaos are given massive priority in coverage over the boring or mundane things like "what is this person going to do when he's in charge?". And, on that last part, this applied as much to Trudeau Sr. as much as it does to a world-ender like Trump.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:33 am
 


A New Year’s resolution of sorts I’ve made for myself, and which I would recommend for those of like mind politically, is to stop using the term “virtue signalling”. It’s a cheap rhetorical trick, which people on the right use to disregard the substance of a statement coming from the left by questioning its intent rather than taking it at face value. For the same reason, I hope some folks on “the other side” consider dropping the use of the term “dogwhistling”. When someone on the left uses that term, they’re essentially saying “You didn’t actually say anything that was racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic, but I want to say you did anyway.” None of us are mindreaders, so it’s best to assume that what someone is saying is their best effort at expressing exactly what they mean, unless they give you clear reason to assume otherwise. The dialogue has become so poisoned in terms of what people are really saying. Let’s not layer imagined intent on top of it.

Happy New Year all!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:33 am
 


An irony is that Marxism is just as much a child of the Western intellectual tradition, which hit its peak in the Enlightenment, as liberal capitalism. However, “Mom” has clearly favoured the elder child, as evidenced by capitalism’s resilience in the face of a century-long war waged on it. The answer for the younger child seems to be matricide, as represented by the post-modernists and their cultural disruption project, intersectional identity politics. First kill Mom, then go after big brother.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:32 pm
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Sunnyways wrote:
While both are authoritarian ideologies, fascism has a much stronger nativist and tribal component than communism.


No, you're confusing the economic models with political platforms.

Economic fascism doesn't have any ideology attached to it at all. It's just a system.

Any system can have strong nativist and tribal components. The assertion that this is somehow unique to fascism is pure propaganda.


And nobody said tribalism was unique to fascism, but fascism has a much less internationalist flavour than communism, surely? At one time, it was an ultranationalist, authoritarian ideology. These days, it’s a term to describe beliefs one doesn’t like.

I would say communism was more dangerous in its time because of its greater emphasis on idealism and altruism. It sounded great.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:12 pm
 


Sunnyways wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Sunnyways wrote:
While both are authoritarian ideologies, fascism has a much stronger nativist and tribal component than communism.


No, you're confusing the economic models with political platforms.

Economic fascism doesn't have any ideology attached to it at all. It's just a system.

Any system can have strong nativist and tribal components. The assertion that this is somehow unique to fascism is pure propaganda.


And nobody said tribalism was unique to fascism, but fascism has a much less internationalist flavour than communism, surely? At one time, it was an ultranationalist, authoritarian ideology. These days, it’s a term to describe beliefs one doesn’t like.

I would say communism was more dangerous in its time because of its greater emphasis on idealism and altruism. It sounded great.


Fascism is always nativist and xenophobic. Other systems may or may not be as well but fascism always is. Fascism also is socially conservative and promises to restore some long-lost past “golden age” and bring back “traditional values” just as conservatives always do.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:20 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Sunnyways wrote:

I would say communism was more dangerous in its time because of its greater emphasis on idealism and altruism. It sounded great.


Fascism is always nativist and xenophobic. Other systems may or may not be as well but fascism always is. Fascism also is socially conservative and promises to restore some long-lost past “golden age” and bring back “traditional values” just as conservatives always do.


Fascism wears its dark heart on its sleeve. Communism wraps its equally murderous self in a veneer of intellectualism and seeming compassion. But Solzhenitsyn had it right...

Macbeth’s self-justifications were feeble – and his conscience devoured him. Yes, even Iago was a little lamb too. The imagination and the spiritual strength of Shakespeare’s evildoers stopped short at a dozen corpses. Because they had no ideology.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:45 am
 


Individualist wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
Sunnyways wrote:

I would say communism was more dangerous in its time because of its greater emphasis on idealism and altruism. It sounded great.


Fascism is always nativist and xenophobic. Other systems may or may not be as well but fascism always is. Fascism also is socially conservative and promises to restore some long-lost past “golden age” and bring back “traditional values” just as conservatives always do.


Fascism wears its dark heart on its sleeve. Communism wraps its equally murderous self in a veneer of intellectualism and seeming compassion. But Solzhenitsyn had it right...

Macbeth’s self-justifications were feeble – and his conscience devoured him. Yes, even Iago was a little lamb too. The imagination and the spiritual strength of Shakespeare’s evildoers stopped short at a dozen corpses. Because they had no ideology.


Fortunately the old Cold War is over and communism is all but dead. Fascism is making a comeback though and ironically the former Soviet Union is its benefactor.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:13 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Fortunately the old Cold War is over and communism is all but dead. Fascism is making a comeback though and ironically the former Soviet Union is its benefactor.


But that’s the thing. It’s not “all but dead”. Not by a long shot. If there’s one thing the history of the past 100 years has taught us is that communism and fascism travel in a pair. When one emerges somewhere, you know the other will show up sooner or later. Now it’s true that we’re not exactly talking about Uncle Joe’s communism anymore. The virus has been mutated by its exposure to and interaction with academic postmodernism, but it’s back in a big way. It’s just not driving tanks yet. It’s operating out of its “safe space” in the humanities departments of universities, and being transmitted out via the media, both social and traditional. It’s leaking into maintstream political parties and discourse through intersectional identity politics. And make no mistake, these SJWs aren’t a retread of boomer student activism. These are people with visions of death camps dancing in their heads, even if they don’t yet have the power to build them. And when they call you an “ally”, they’re just saying “We’ll get to you later.”


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:56 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Fascism doesn't require a dictatorship to function. Neither does communism or any other system.

BUT...governance models in the socialist/left spectrum tend to facilitate dictatorships. :idea: .


Not when you look at western countries...the “socialist/left” like scandinavia are some of the most democratic wheras the Eastern European countries are more Right wing and less democratic.


Isn't it ironic that the Eastern European countries that were all treated to the unparalleled experience of Communism are the least tolerant of that bullshit? Those countries are actually pretty decent so long as you're not some shitstain who pines away for the glories of the Soviet Empire.

And Scandanavia...you mean to include Denmark where they're going to isolate their Islamic invaders on a remote island to contain them? Or Sweden which is now deporting the rapists and murderers back to whence they came? Or Finland which is quietly refusing them entry at the border?

I dare say I think all of these countries are becoming much more democratic and in the real sense, not just in the People's Democratic Republic sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:57 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
llama66 wrote:
Fascism is such a bitch to define because I understand it to be anti-liberal. anti-conservative, anti-capitalist and anti-communist. It defies our current notions of political schools of thought. Even though it was reputed to have been created (?) by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Even though the concept has been around for a couple thousand years.


Fascism is anti-communist only to the extent that fascist parties compete politically with communist parties.

Fascism itself is almost communism.
The Russians during the Stalin years called him a "red fascist".


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