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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:01 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
So here's Justin--who runs on climate change and the environment--completely backing the KM pipeline at the expense of his green reputation and yet nobody in Alberta can bring themselves to say one decent word about him. He should have screwed Alberta like his dad. He would have lost exactly zero votes in Alberta and gained some elsewhere.


He marketed himself to the electorate as a different kind of Trudeau. Same basic goals, but different means.

Do you think PET was right to screw Alberta? If so, why?


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:30 pm
 


Individualist wrote:
Justin’s overtures towards Alberta will fade away over time, because the exclusion of Western Canada (especially the prairie provinces) is fundamental to and indivisible from the Laurentian worldview. Justin will never be as blunt or as obvious in his disdain for Alberta and the prairies as his father was, but deep down, under the cowboy outfit he wears to Stampedes, he’s still that guy from the 2010 Les Francs-tireurs interview.


Justin backed down from electoral reform because he couldn’t force through ranked ballot without political cost, and he prefers the status quo to PR. Why? Because under PR, he couldn’t just write off Alberta, treating it as a monolith, as Liberals are used to doing. A Liberal Party that has to worry about winning votes wherever they can can’t as easily apply the Keith Davey “screw the West” strategy, because you may end up needing some of those votes. And screwing over Alberta only plays well with a certain proportion of Ontarians and Quebecers, and may in fact turn off some others (that Canadian sense of fairness again).


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:12 pm
 


Zipperfish wrote:
So here's Justin--who runs on climate change and the environment--completely backing the KM pipeline at the expense of his green reputation and yet nobody in Alberta can bring themselves to say one decent word about him. He should have screwed Alberta like his dad. He would have lost exactly zero votes in Alberta and gained some elsewhere.


I think JT has done okay on some issues and not very well on others, but the beef Albertans have over the Trans Mountain pipeline is his lack (or perceived lack) of forcefulness on the issue.

If JT wants to prove to Alberta that he really supports the pipeline, all he has to do is threaten to withhold transfer payments or introduce legislation that punishes BC for the BS they are pulling right now. If he did that, many Albertans would finally believe that he does have their back.

Holding meetings and saying "This pipeline will be built" is cold comfort when BC is bringing in their own legislation to regulate what can be shipped across it:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... reference/


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:10 pm
 


They hate Albertans because there are as many fucking stupid and blockheaded as anywhere else?
Just listened to 1/2 hour of explanations on the radio from oil experts on the situation that lead to Vancouver's outrageous prices. Then the next fucking 9 callers blamed taxes and Horgan for those prices.
Same reason I cancelled holding my Computing For Seniors community classes. Fucking fingers in their ears, won't listen ever - so they can't hear nor learn dick shit. Then start crowing five minutes later because "Windows" forgot their password... such a useless piece of shit...

Just like here!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:22 am
 


So many BC’ers (particularly in Vancouver) seem to forget that “coastal elites” isn’t as much of a thing here in Canada as in the US. In Canada, “flyover country” is anywhere that isn’t southern Ontario or urban Quebec. To the Laurentian elites, anyone to the west is just a Westerner. That’s why Energy East gets killed and the Trans Mountain gets nationalized and pushed forward.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:26 am
 


Individualist wrote:
Zipperfish wrote:
So here's Justin--who runs on climate change and the environment--completely backing the KM pipeline at the expense of his green reputation and yet nobody in Alberta can bring themselves to say one decent word about him. He should have screwed Alberta like his dad. He would have lost exactly zero votes in Alberta and gained some elsewhere.


He marketed himself to the electorate as a different kind of Trudeau. Same basic goals, but different means.

Do you think PET was right to screw Alberta? If so, why?


No I was being facetious. I don't think he was right to screw Alberta. I'm saying that Justin spending all this political capital to appease Alberta will buy him exactly 0 votes there.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:27 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
I think JT has done okay on some issues and not very well on others, but the beef Albertans have over the Trans Mountain pipeline is his lack (or perceived lack) of forcefulness on the issue.


Case in point. The government actually buys the pipeline in order to ensure it gets built, and Boot says he's not being forceful enough on the issue. :lol:

Actually I think he's buying the pipeline to appease industry, and with some justification. The protestors need to realize that it went through a democratic process, flawed as it is, and they have to live with the results.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:36 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
I think JT has done okay on some issues and not very well on others, but the beef Albertans have over the Trans Mountain pipeline is his lack (or perceived lack) of forcefulness on the issue.


Case in point. The government actually buys the pipeline in order to ensure it gets built, and Boot says he's not being forceful enough on the issue. :lol:

Actually I think he's buying the pipeline to appease industry, and with some justification. The protestors need to realize that it went through a democratic process, flawed as it is, and they have to live with the results.


Check the date on my post - it was 28 days BEFORE the government announced they were going to buy the pipeline.

Case in point about BCers hating on Albertans! :P


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:36 am
 


Zipperfish wrote:
Actually I think he's buying the pipeline to appease industry, and with some justification.

The fed's bought the Kinder package for Canada, not for Alberta.

Canada's actions, at every level, has been terrifying investors across the board. The fed's needed to instill some stability, and did so.

I don't particularly agree with the action taken, but I certainly agree that an action was desperately needed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:25 am
 


peck420 wrote:
Zipperfish wrote:
Actually I think he's buying the pipeline to appease industry, and with some justification.

The fed's bought the Kinder package for Canada, not for Alberta.


Don’t know if there’s such a thing as a genetic pre-disposition towards buying private oil company assets (cough...Petrofina), but perhaps some ambitious researcher should look into it. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:37 am
 


The better question is, why are so many Canadians anti-Albertan?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:45 am
 


Now that it looks like Trudeau’s gambit to keep Notley in power and the UCP out (while slowly strangling the energy sector in Alberta) has failed, prepare for Justin to switch to the more direct route of his father, Marc Lalonde and Keith Davey. If the Laurentian elites can’t fully possess the golden goose, they will slaughter it. Funnelling money to Quebec through equalization is no longer sufficient to placate Justin’s Central Canadian base. And Justin thinks he can just keep borrowing money to make up for the loss of revenue. Butts hates the oil industry, Justin hates Alberta, and the Laurentian elites hate any province other than Ontario or Quebec trying to have a say in national affairs or grow their economies. Alberta will be crushed not just to remove a long-standing political nuisance, but as an example to anyone else in the “colonies” who might get ideas above their station.

With Alberta neutralized as a political and economic force, the next step would be to manipulate the Conservative opposition party to re-attach “Progressive” to its name and re-Laurentianize it ideologically, allowing it then return to its previous function as the ideologically compatible spare tire for the Liberals when they’ve spent too long in power and need a break (or have the temerity to choose a non-Quebecois leader).

Once Kenney has been elected premier, all bets are off. The two-generation Trudeau program will reach its conclusion, and a powerful voice against the Laurentian elites will be silenced. The western provinces (yes, even BC) will be for all intents and purposes and for all time colonies of Ontario and Quebec.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:32 am
 


One of my favourite comments about Alberta from naive folks elsewhere in Canada is “Why don’t they just apply all that technical know-how to clean energy and become a leader in that?” The obvious answer to anyone with a knowledge of Canadian history is that the elites in Southern Ontario and Quebec would never allow that to happen. Their problem with Alberta having become an economic power through the oil industry wasn’t the “oil” part so much as the “economic power” part. Industrial policy going all the way back to Macdonald has favoured Central Canada. The only reason they couldn’t stop the prairie provinces from prospering in natural resource development was that you couldn’t simply pick up the resource deposits and relocate them to Ontario or Quebec. Green energy manufacturing isn’t so geographically bound, and thus the federal government could play regional favourites successfully.

It’s a shame that the issue of regional justice for the Western provinces, the prairies in particular, got so pinned to the left-right dynamic. The federal NDP used to advocate for westerners, before Jack Layton took the party from associate status to full membership in the Laurentian Consensus. Nowadays, the NDP finds prairie folk too white, too Christian and too rural for them to care that much about. Progressivism in Canada has largely abandoned people who work with their hands in smaller communities in favour of professors, activists and “creative class” types in large urban centres.

That leaves westerners (Vancouver excepted) with no one to speak for them but the political right, who like them for all the same reasons progressives don’t. But there’s nothing inherently left wing about handing out money to Bombardier, or attacking the economies of regions of the country that don’t vote for your preferred party or contain your type of people, or for preferring politicians from Quebec to those from elsewhere in the country. That’s Laurentian elite crap, and they’ve bet all their chips on the Liberal Party. PET is their deity, and guess what that makes Justin. That leaves a lot of room to oppose their agenda on both the right and left. But that would force the NDP to put down their Richard Florida books, tone down the intersectional identity politics, tell Avi and Naomi to get out of Toronto every once in a while and, most of all, to reconnect with tradespeople and farmers.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:22 am
 


I agree with most of this. The foundational structure of this country will always engage in a reactionary defense of itself, even if having another center of political and economic strength elsewhere in the country is to the obvious advantage of everyone, even if just in terms of the revenue it generates. No different than anywhere else in the world where the entrenched elite and neo-nobility automatically crushes anything that might challenge their unquestionable rule over the mass.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:11 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
I agree with most of this. The foundational structure of this country will always engage in a reactionary defense of itself, even if having another center of political and economic strength elsewhere in the country is to the obvious advantage of everyone, even if just in terms of the revenue it generates. No different than anywhere else in the world where the entrenched elite and neo-nobility automatically crushes anything that might challenge their unquestionable rule over the mass.


Much of the history of Canada can be summarized as “old money defending itself against new money” and old money elites embracing left-of-centre politics as a way of pulling the ladder up behind them in terms of wealth acquisition.


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