[Reverend Blair]

[QUOTE]I mean they were expected to try and assimilate, whereas now they are paid to promote their own culture or were and they are told to even keep their former culture if they don't even want to.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> There is some funding available to cultural groups, Perturbed. It is available because most Canadians recognise the importance of cultural heritage. Immigrants are not paid to promote their culture though. <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Well I assume immigation has somethign to do with that.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yeah, Canada needed people and the British weren't coming. That's what immigration has to do with that.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]You mean because they simply keep their own?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> No, I mean beause they can only have so much of an effect on an established culture.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]This said the sheer numbers I can assure you have displaced the culture that existed in many parts of the downtown of cities like Toronto where I live....though the people they displaced I'm sure went elsewhere.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Displaced? What, did they chase them away with pitch forks and torches?<br /> <br /> Immigrants move into a given area because there's space for them there. That's generally because somebody else moved out.<br /> <br /> The pattern of immigrants is that they come to this country, move into more affordable areas, then work their asses off so their kids can live elsewhere. Neighbourhoods change as much because of out-migration and old people dying as the new people moving in.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]I think that we view culture differently. I emphasize lanaguage and the various groups you spoke of did create a distinct dialect of English which I view as Canadian.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> And the latest wave of immigrants is changing that dialect and creating a slightly different version of Canadian. English is a language made up of other languages anyway, and it changes all of the time.<br /> <br /> Your point seems to be that immigrants aren't learning English. So how many second, third, and fourth generation Canadians are there today who don't speak English?

[samuel]

There is a huge contrast between historical immigration and immigration during the long decade Liberal rule. These facts cannot be ignored, no matter how deep in the sand your head may be.<br /> <br /> One-quarter (25%) of Canada's population are now first generation immigrants. The proportion of people born outside the country has never been this high. Proponents of multiculturalism don't see a problem, but here's what they're not looking at or won't discuss:<br /> <br /> The number of immigrants of Asian origin has increased 27% since 1996, a total of 3 million. That's more Asians than the current populations of 7 Provinces and the Territories combined. Chinese - the group which has now passed the 1 million mark - is the largest ethnic group. The second largest Asian ethnic group consists of people from East India who are also nearing the million mark.<br /> <br /> What's wrong with the above picture? Liberals have taken (multi)cultural immigration and turned it into (mono)cultural immigration, Asians. A 1996 study on first generation immigrants concluded they are the most likely to retain their cultural attachment and congregate within their ethnic group. This is a message Liberals understood quite clearly, but forget the vote buying conspiracy. Flooding the country with such a lack of diversity in ethnic origins is not only irresponsible, it's hazourdous and downright treason IMO. If multiculturalism is what's being propped up to defend immigration policies, multicultural immigration is not what's been happening.<br /> <br /> No politician will tackle this issue dead on for the very reason discussions in this and other threads domonstrate. People are quick to jump on the racism bandwagon and a concentration of Asian votes can no longer be risked.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] There is a huge contrast between historical immigration and immigration during the long decade Liberal rule. These facts cannot be ignored, no matter how deep in the sand your head may be.<br /> <br /> One-quarter (25%) of Canada's population are now first generation immigrants. The proportion of people born outside the country has never been this high. Proponents of multiculturalism don't see a problem, but here's what they're not looking at or won't discuss:<br /> <br /> The number of immigrants of Asian origin has increased 27% since 1996, a total of 3 million. That's more Asians than the current populations of 7 Provinces and the Territories combined. Chinese - the group which has now passed the 1 million mark - is the largest ethnic group. The second largest Asian ethnic group consists of people from East India who are also nearing the million mark.<br /> <br /> What's wrong with the above picture? Liberals have taken (multi)cultural immigration and turned it into (mono)cultural immigration, Asians. A 1996 study on first generation immigrants concluded they are the most likely to retain their cultural attachment and congregate within their ethnic group. This is a message Liberals understood quite clearly, but forget the vote buying conspiracy. Flooding the country with such a lack of diversity in ethnic origins is not only irresponsible, it's hazourdous and downright treason IMO. If multiculturalism is what's being propped up to defend immigration policies, multicultural immigration is not what's been happening.<br /> <br /> No politician will tackle this issue dead on for the very reason discussions in this and other threads domonstrate. People are quick to jump on the racism bandwagon and a concentration of Asian votes can no longer be risked.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> I should add Samuel that that 25% proportion is nation-wide, but in the major cities where immigrants settle it is more like 60%. This is cultural and ethnic annihilation. If Palestineans did this to Jews in Israel it would be called much worse--even ethnic cleansing.<br /> <br /> Never mind the fact that our tax base and cities were not built to supports unnaturally large spikes in our population.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE]There is some funding available to cultural groups, Perturbed. It is available because most Canadians recognise the importance of cultural heritage. Immigrants are not paid to promote their culture though. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yes they have been paid to promote their culture. The Canadian government should be paying to support English and French culture--the two dominant cultures that created Canada. Ancestry is also of significance but wanting to understand your past shoudl not mean bringing cultural baggage to Canada. Immigrants and their descendants should come as they used to and be part of something new, not take everything with them and try to keep it all.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Yeah, Canada needed people and the British weren't coming. That's what immigration has to do with that.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Current immigration is not happening though because the British, Germansm, French etc. are not coming. They aren't even allowed to most of the time now if they want to.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]No, I mean beause they can only have so much of an effect on an established culture.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Until they become the majority. Then it is only a matter of time.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Displaced? What, did they chase them away with pitch forks and torches?<br /> <br /> Immigrants move into a given area because there's space for them there. That's generally because somebody else moved out.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Europeans do not like crowding and they will move if they feel stressed. They were pushed out as their neighbourhoods went downhill.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]The pattern of immigrants is that they come to this country, move into more affordable areas, then work their asses off so their kids can live elsewhere. Neighbourhoods change as much because of out-migration and old people dying as the new people moving in.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Agreed. That said, we should work to raise our birth rates so less immigration is required. A better sense of community would make be stay in the same area more often. This is impossible in a diverse society where difference is promoted.<br /> <br /> That said, people will move in and out but when they do, other working class Canadians of European descent should bve there to take their place. They would consider moving in to these neighbourhoods but rule it out when they find a colony of recent immigrants of a different ethnic group. Wouldn't you rule it out? You wouldn't fit in.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]I think that we view culture differently. I emphasize lanaguage and the various groups you spoke of did create a distinct dialect of English which I view as Canadian.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]And the latest wave of immigrants is changing that dialect and creating a slightly different version of Canadian. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> They are forming new dialects in Canada but only in the major cities where they are settling--not in the country. That said, few object to new sub-dialects of Canadian English, BUT, they do object to the newer dialects displacing and replacing the old ones.<br /> <br /> Why shouldn't we try to preserve Canada as much as possible as it was culturally? Some things change but in Britain there are dialects of English that have changed little in 1000 years and they are in danger of being replaced due to mass immigration.<br /> <br /> The Cockney dialect of English in England is being replaced by "Jafaican"--a Jamaican hybrid accent of recent immigrants.<br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]English is a language made up of other languages anyway, and it changes all of the time.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Oh bullshit. I apologize that English isn't as static as languages of zero influence like Ukrainian. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'><br /> <br /> English changes, yet it also stays the same. Things get added and some words come and go in terms of popularity but you can undo centuries of cultural development very quickly should you overwhelm it. This is now happening. <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE]Your point seems to be that immigrants aren't learning English. So how many second, third, and fourth generation Canadians are there today who don't speak English?[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> In Chinatowns in Toronto quite a few. They are the leading ethnic group immigrating to Canada today.

[samuel]

Some still refuse to acknowledge the abuse, but guess what's the 3rd largest group? Asian people from the island nation of the Philippines. How many, 50 000 maybe, 80 000 perhaps? Think again, nearly half a million were let into this country. Diversity and multiculturalism through immigration? Bullshit on Liberals and their supporters. This is the plundering of yet another government ministry through racial profiling. The expedient flooding of Asians for political gain.<br /> <br /> We don't eat cats and dogs here, we try to protect them. There's a long tradition of Mounted Police wearing Stetson's here, not turbans. There's established law here and it's not Sharia. But when you fill a country with too many immigrants of specific cultures or religions, you get congregations that start to undermine it through political manipulations and courts.<br /> <br /> These are all plain as day facts no Canadian can deny, which obviously doesn't prevent those who voted Libaral again from living in denial.

[The Saint]

Samuel raises a good point: the illusion of diversity. If you come to Toronto you will notice that few ethnic groups are as ubiquitous as the air we breath and most other ethnic groups will require some detective work. Chinese and South Asians (Indian, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans) form the bulk of Canada’s immigrants with the Philippines following behind and it is these people from these few countries that make up Toronto’s “diversity.” This is aided by the fact that not only are these countries at the top of the list of immigrant producing countries to Canada but also are amongst the top refugee producing countries to Canada as well and this should raise eye brows. I am certain Vancouver (also called Hongcouver for good reason) is no different.<br /> <br /> Multiculturalism and diversity in Toronto means Chinese and South Asian with some other cultures thrown in for flavor. More than half (I heard as high as 90% but I cannot verify) come from Asia alone to Canada. These two groups are large enough to colonize not only neighbourhoods but whole towns. This is not diversity or multiculturalism. This is a farce perpetrated by ethnic-vote buying urban politicians and political parties who concerns look no further than the next election and damn the future consequences of short term decisions. If diversity is of a concern then why are we not concentrating on the over-representation of South Asians and Chinese in Canada? Shouldn’t we decrease the importation of immigrants from China and India and increase the importation of immigrants from elsewhere if real diversity is our goal? Other than that Canadians will increasingly look more Chinese and Indian than anything else and these two ethnic groups are content with that. They are not concerned with Canada’s immigration policy because they feel that there are not enough people from Chad in Canada. They are not concerned about the deportations because after all they were Portuguese but once Chinese or Indians get deportation orders you can expect protests.<br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] Some still refuse to acknowledge the abuse, but guess what's the 3rd largest group? Asian people from the island nation of the Philippines. How many, 50 000 maybe, 80 000 perhaps? Think again, nearly half a million were let into this country. Diversity and multiculturalism through immigration? Bullshit on Liberals and their supporters. This is the plundering of yet another government ministry through racial profiling. The expedient flooding of Asians for political gain.<br /> <br /> We don't eat cats and dogs here, we try to protect them. There's a long tradition of Mounted Police wearing Stetson's here, not turbans. There's established law here and it's not Sharia. But when you fill a country with too many immigrants of specific cultures or religions, you get congregations that start to undermine it through political manipulations and courts.<br /> <br /> These are all plain as day facts no Canadian can deny, which obviously doesn't prevent those who voted Libaral again from living in denial.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Although it was actually Mulroney who tripled immigration to over 200,000 annually regardless of economic conditions. All parties are the same on immigration.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= The Saint] Samuel raises a good point: the illusion of diversity. If you come to Toronto you will notice that few ethnic groups are as ubiquitous as the air we breath and most other ethnic groups will require some detective work. Chinese and South Asians (Indian, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans) form the bulk of Canada’s immigrants with the Philippines following behind and it is these people from these few countries that make up Toronto’s “diversity.” This is aided by the fact that not only are these countries at the top of the list of immigrant producing countries to Canada but also are amongst the top refugee producing countries to Canada as well and this should raise eye brows. I am certain Vancouver (also called Hongcouver for good reason) is no different.<br /> <br /> Multiculturalism and diversity in Toronto means Chinese and South Asian with some other cultures thrown in for flavor. More than half (I heard as high as 90% but I cannot verify) come from Asia alone to Canada. These two groups are large enough to colonize not only neighbourhoods but whole towns. This is not diversity or multiculturalism. This is a farce perpetrated by ethnic-vote buying urban politicians and political parties who concerns look no further than the next election and damn the future consequences of short term decisions. If diversity is of a concern then why are we not concentrating on the over-representation of South Asians and Chinese in Canada? Shouldn’t we decrease the importation of immigrants from China and India and increase the importation of immigrants from elsewhere if real diversity is our goal? Other than that Canadians will increasingly look more Chinese and Indian than anything else and these two ethnic groups are content with that. They are not concerned with Canada’s immigration policy because they feel that there are not enough people from Chad in Canada. They are not concerned about the deportations because after all they were Portuguese but once Chinese or Indians get deportation orders you can expect protests.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I totally agree with you The Saint but to be fair there are many from other countries as well. Lots visible from Jamaica and African nations. Lots from Pakistan, Iran. Recently I've noticed many people from Argentina, Lebanon, Morocco, Libya, and so on in Toronto. <br /> <br /> Tonnes from Somalia and from Sri Lanka--another big voting block (400,000-600,000) that caused Paul Martin to keep the Tamil Tigers off the terrorist list (until Harper added them) and even caused Martin to attend dinners with known terrorist fundraisers (overseas) in an amazing flaunting of Canadian soveriegnty.<br /> <br /> Paul Martin saw dining with ethnic groups funding terrorism as okay and fighting for the ethnic vote as okay--but to him traditional Canada was always evil, oppressive, racist, sexist, imperialist--something to be destroyed. This was par for course in the insane masochism of the 1960s when he grew up. Martin thought his nonsense was a beautiful, just thing.

[samuel]

All parties are not the same on immigration, perturbed. Even the Liberal old guard practiced somewhat balanced immigration. Shortly after post Mulroney Liberals were elected however, Asian immigration shot up by a factor of 27% and remained that way throughout their reign. You can't even call it balanced Asian immigration, ethinicities were targeted for their already high numbers. Someone in the NDP compared present day Liberals to egg-sucking dogs in reference to the Volpe flap. I had to look up the meaning of that comment to conlude it was spot on. The immigration department wasn't spared the egg-sucking, the numbers speak for themselves. Canada will continue uncovering scandals from these Liberal traitors for many years to come and unfortunately there is plenty of liberal daydreamers to vote them in again.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] All parties are not the same on immigration, perturbed. Even the Liberal old guard practiced somewhat balanced immigration. Shortly after post Mulroney Liberals were elected however, Asian immigration shot up by a factor of 27% and remained that way throughout their reign. You can't even call it balanced Asian immigration, ethinicities were targeted for their already high numbers. Someone in the NDP compared present day Liberals to egg-sucking dogs in reference to the Volpe flap. I had to look up the meaning of that comment to conlude it was spot on. The immigration department wasn't spared the egg-sucking, the numbers speak for themselves. Canada will continue uncovering scandals from these Liberal traitors for many years to come and unfortunately there is plenty of liberal daydreamers to vote them in again.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> What I meant Samuel is that all political parties will not deviate from the main pattern/paradign that much out of fear and due to those who influence and control them. I think you are smart enough to know that this is ultimately not about Liberal corruption--the Liberals are not the architects of globalism--the western elites ARE. I don't care if the Liberals are corrupt, as long as they do not ruin my country.<br /> <br /> Conservatives: hate immigration yet change little other than a few deportations here and there. Like I said earlier it was actually MULRONEY (not Chretien) who really opened the floodgates. (not that it wasn't already a big issue)<br /> <br /> Liberals: From Chretien to pro-minority Martin to a likely win by Michael Ignatieff who talks about Canadian values being "Social justice" and promising to "take a multicultural, multi-ethnic society, and try ot make it work." At least he said try. <br /> <br /> NDP: Have a leader who married out of his race after fathering children with a white women and his wife, Olivia Chow, attended immigration protests in Toronto in support of status for illegals. Layton means well but is just as pro-multicult as anyone.<br /> <br /> BQ: Duceppe is not stupid and looked insecure when Martin said "diversity is our strength" last leaders debate but in public has talked about how there is "no pure laine Quebecois anymore". He is a sellout and a puppet and his provincial PQ were just as pro-diversity as Trudeau in part as they fully supported liberalizing immigration from places like Haiti as long as they spoke French.<br /> <br /> <br /> Point being, no party would really change anything and it is doubtful they could very easily if they wanted to anyway.<br /> <br /> The NDP may diss the Liberals for being corrupt, but come on Samuel, the NDP is about as pro-minority as it gets. They mean well unlike the Liberals but they are just stupid.<br /> <br /> The Conservatives resorted to apoligizing to the Chinese so they are not cultural conservatives--only fiscal.

[samuel]

That's because you're taking my comments out of context and into your fantasy of seeing a Party completely halt immigration, perturbed. That's not what I'm highlighting. I'm pointing out how the immigration candy store got looted, the motive behind it, the results of thier doing so and how hazardous it is. If, as you say, we're stuck with every Party advocating mass immigration, I'm saying do so responsibly and not just with the next election in mind.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] That's because you're taking my comments out of context and into your fantasy of seeing a Party completely halt immigration, perturbed. That's not what I'm highlighting. I'm pointing out how the immigration candy store got looted, the motive behind it, the results of thier doing so and how hazardous it is. If, as you say, we're stuck with every Party advocating mass immigration, I'm saying do so responsibly and not just with the next election in mind.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> I see exactly what you're saying but mass immigration will never be responsible. Not when there is no justificatio nfor it and not when Canadians have repeatedly said they don't want it.<br /> <br /> "We need to settle the west" to keep the Americans out is no longer an issue. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'>