[michou]

I've been thinking about this love letter to Québécers written by one M. Anders and it is most obvious M. Anders knows very little about Québec's economy and cultural life. Basically, every word in this litany of insults is based on perceptions and it is completely out of touch with what is Québec today. Mr Anders probably knows even less about Québec society and its history.<p> <br />The best way to turn off Québécers from thinking of themselves as Canadians and to push them in wanting out of Canada would be to print similar rants across Québec newspapers on a daily basis. Though Québécers need to be aware that M Anders' kind exist, it woud be to independantists' advantages to plaster their letters across the medias. The ensueing outrage could easily be played on and would definitely help politicians achieve their aims.

[michou]

There is an article posted on the home page titled "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 2004". <br />If Bush is still head to head with Kerry, even after 3 disastrous debates for Bush, something is obviously working with this "Fear and Loathing" strategy. <br />Hopefully, Canadians and Québécers will have enough sense to stay away from this kind of approach in the future. <br />

[Calumny]

Still haven't received the email, michou. Based on previous experiences with hotmail, will doubtless arrive in a few days. Thanks for posting the translation. <br /> <br />The obvious comment is that misinformed crank letters appear daily in newspapers across the nation. Why these publications that doubtless receive dozens of thoughtful letters each day choose to print these ravings is anyone's guess. <br /> <br />We all know there are Canadians who are racist and will gripe about Quebecois, and probably everyone else who isn't like them, as opportunity allows, just as they're are Quebecois who are racist and gripe about anglos, and probably everyone else unlike themselves. Are either of these representative of their communities as a whole? Hopefully not. <br /> <br />Then there is a certain type which is generally most obvious in the workplace. These types spend more time concerned about what their co-workers are doing than they spend on performing their own duties. This type of person always feels others are doing less than them, getting more than them or are more favoured in some way, and spends their life feeling some injustice has been done them. You'll find these in every province, believing some other is getting something their's isn't. <br /> <br />So, did Mr. Anders wrote his letter in, from his perspective, good faith solely to express his true feelings about the subject matter. Or was this written by someone as part of an ongoing campaign to encourage a divisive, 'us against them' mentality to, for whatever reason, support the goal of Quebec separation from Canada. <br /> <br />Samuel seems to imply the latter. <br /> <br />Mr. Anders is (I hope) unlikely to gain much support for his views from most Canadians outside of Quebec. So, who is he seeking to influence? <br /> <br />Wonder if the letter was sent to any papers outside of Quebec? Wonder if similar types of letters to Albertans from 'Ontarians', and vice versa, have appeared or will appear? <br /> <br />Either way, it is in the best interests of those wishing to maintain some sort of mutually beneficial relationship between Canadian provinces to ignore the views of folks like Anders, regardless of the provinces or groups they're hoping to alienate and divide. <br /> <br />Again, thanks for publishing the translated version. <br /> <br />

[Guest]

As a francophone who knows the ROC, I can attest that this is what a majority of English Canadians think. When a letter like this one, or other hateful comments, are published against Quebec or anything francophone in a newspaper, you won't find many anglophones to defend us. On the contrary, they are almost all unanimous in their perception of us. <br /> <br />How else can you explain Don Cherry's immense popularity? This pathetic ridiculous clown earned his popularity on our backs. Everytime he makes a hateful comment, Canada jubilates, asking for more. It just loves to hate us. The press gets into it, francophones complain and Canada sticks to his position behind Cherry. I don't think that Cherry, had he never spoken a word against or about Quebec, would be such a "hero". <br /> <br />Same with Conan OBrien. His hateful comments last year were extremely well received by the crowd. <br /> <br />What are we being told by the ROC when such things happen? We're being told to turn off the TV! As if what is being said about us is perfectly acceptable and we're being made to feel we are wrong because we can't take a joke'. <br /> <br />And then there is the economic question. Everytime (and I insist it is everytime) federal grants are alloted to a Quebec company, all hell breaks loose in the ROC. <br /> <br />Why is this? Why are federal grants perfectly acceptable for the auto industry in southern Ontario, and not for the aeronautics industry in Quebec? Air Canada recently purchased planes from EMBRAER, a rival comany of Bombardier located in Brasil. What message do you think Canada sends worldwide when it won't endorse its own aeronautics industry? <br /> <br />And then, this week, we just found out that Desjardins was "left out by mistake" for the sales of Petro Canada parts. 22 brokers shared about 55 millions in commissions. The biggest financial industry in Quebec was, by mistake, "left out". <br /> <br />Quebec needs Canada like a kick in the butt. The sooner it gets out, the better. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[michou]

Oh good. I don't feel so alone with my independantist views here at Vive anymore. <br />Bienvenue Delenda Carthago.<p> <br />I haven't seen any recent surveys as to what the ROC thinks of Québécers but even if they were to prove you right, whatever the likes of Mr. Anders and Don Cherry think should not be used as a weapon to gain visibility for the movement. We, the bloodsucking vampires terrorists of independance, have sufficient and sensible reasons, i.e. economical, cultural and linguistic, to advocate a sovereign Québec.</p><p>Delving with the likes of Don Cherry and Mr. Anders' will only veer us off from the real reasons we are striving for an independant Québec. It shouldn't blind us to the fact we will be vilified and spewed with hate filled venom in the process, but responding in same manner will not further our cause either.</p> <br /> <br />

[Calumny]

Based on many conversations through the years, my view is that most Canadians who know of Don Cherry, i.e., the hockey crowd, see him as being a buffoon. His popularity now is more of a freak show variety. His earlier career was largely made on having some knowledge of hockey and 'chicken Swedes'. <br /> <br />Someone making insulting or derogatory remarks about someone else will always find an audience. <br /> <br />For the past fifteen years or so, I've noted a distinct trend in TV, movies, commercials, etc. towards the portrayal of males as out of touch boobs and objects of hilarity. Do I take this to prove there is a hatred of males by Hollywood, females, etc. Well, no. But then, I'm not looking for any evidence of the same to support any presumptions of my own. <br /> <br />The types of stories you mention can be expected to receive media play because they generate controversy, similar to what one would see in Alberta newspapers if an Ontario company was indicated as having received some sort of subsidy or preferential treatment over an Alberta company. <br /> <br />I won't argue that there aren't misunderstandings about Quebec in other areas of Canada, as is true of other provinces views of one another. Some of this has been fed by media and political sources who have received mileage from it. Yes, I imagine many Canadians are tired of the separation question arising time and again but, does Anders speak for most? No. <br /> <br />It isn't productive for either of us to discuss this in detail because if there was no Don Cherry, Sebastian Anders, etc., etc., I think you'd still believe 'Quebec needs Canada like a kick in the butt. The sooner it gets out, the better.', You have your view, I have mine. Neither will change the other.

[Calumny]

michou, you posted while I was writing. <br /> <br />Unbelievable as it may seem, I was going to make the same point as in you in your final paragraph. Decided not to, as isn't my business.

[Guest]

Michou, répondre de la même manière pour nous voudrait dire émettre des commentaires désobligeants sur les anglos. Ce n'est pas ce que nous voulons. Et nous ne voulons rien inventer ni calomnier. <br /> <br />Mais nous ne voulons pas être aveugles non plus, n'est-ce pas? Moi je crois, au contraire, qu'il faut capitaliser là-dessus. Si on n'est pas encore souverains, c'est que trop de québécois se voient encore comme canadiens et dépendants du Canada. Cette fausse image doit changer. A nous de leur montrer qu'il vaut mieux être québécois que canadien de seconde classe. <br /> <br /> <br />

[Stymiest]

My biggest problem with Quebec is they seem to bitch and complain about equality and all this other horseshit when they get a shitload more then everyone else. <br /> <br />Quebec has been playing this we deserve more then everyone else trump card long enough. I am sick and tired of hearing Gilles Duceppe bitch and complaina about Quebec in the house of commons about how fundamental Quebecs needs are to the country and how we should all make sure we go out of our way to treat Quebec specially. <br /> <br />This is the exact sort of attitude which makes me get pissed at Canadians. When we will stop thinking of small regional interests and think of the big picture. A strong United Canadian population. Its the greedy bastards who are bringing this country down.

[Guest]

Mr. Stymiest, according to you, we should be thankful for the air we're breathing. I agree with you Canada will never recognize Quebec. If you're tired of Duceppe, the best way to get rid of him is to join us and participate in the yes campaign on the next referendum. Then you can stay stuck with those crooks liberals. <br /> <br />Without Duceppe, we wouldn't know anything about the whole sponsorship scandal. Duceppe is the one that challenged the libs as to why Desjardins had not been chosen. Thank God Quebeckers didn't believe those crooks liberal on the last election when they said that it was better for Quebec to "vote for the party in power". <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[Calumny]

Stymiest, not trying to be critical or judgemental here but, I really don't like seeing a lot of profanity in forums and don't believe it's necessary to get one's point accross. If I want to go read posts full of insults and vulgarity, I'll visit a neo-con board. One thing a like about Vive is that regardless of varying viewpoints, people usually manage to deal civily with one another, even on emotional issues. <br /> <br />One thing I dislike about the anonymity of the web is to see people speaking in a way that most wouldn't in their daily lives or would be accepted by others in the real world. <br /> <br />It's not that I'm a prude about profanity (often used or been the target of it myself.). Just don't think it's likely to serve a productive purpose here. <br /> <br />Delenda, out of curiosity who sees Quebecois as second class citizens or dependants of, rather than equals, in Canada? I don't. <br />

[whelan costen]

I am with Calumny on this one, I don't think we need to resort to profanity to make a point, not if the point is worth making. Also I don't think Don Cherry and Conan O'Brien are a representation of ROC; I think Don Cherry had his day in the sun and he was very patriotic at one time, I mean pro-Canada period, so not sure what has happened to him. As for the Conan story, I was deeply saddened by that display, and I think those that asked him to come here should have known what they were getting, they should have never aired that kind of hate material! It was a cheap shot, but I think he thought he could get a way with it outside Quebec, and to be fair to the audience, there are times when people laugh because they don't know what else to do. They were in a strange spot, listening to that crap, probably shocked more than anything. I was shocked and disgusted that any outsider would dare come to my country and insult my countrymen. <br /> <br />But to say that all of the ROC spews hatred towards Quebec, would be a grand mistake, I don't hear it, I don't speak it and I don't like to hear about it. Most people have differing opinions over the situation, just as they do about every other province, but hate, NO. My opinion for what it's worth. <br /> <br />Side note: I think the paper that printed the letter was acting irresponsibly also, free speech is one thing, but printing hate material should not ever be printed.

[michou]

Asking for equality is horseshit ? I guess it depends from which horse's end you're looking at it. <br />Come on Stymiest, you can do better than that. <br /> <br />Where and when did Duceppe ever said Québec deserves more than everyone else ? If for many Canadians, Québec's incessant demands and requests are irrelevant and only end up costing other provinces an arm and leg, why oh why do you keep fighting off independantists ? Sometimes I just don't understand Canadians. <br /> <br />I do agree with your last sentence though; greedy bastards <i>everywhere</i> are bringing the country down. <i>everywhere </i>

[samuel]

Whelan either you are naive or assume that we are naive. Americans can hardly conjure up a discussion on their own identity much less the québécois. Who do you think fed Mr. O'Brien that script? <br /> <br />Stymiest thanks for highlighting the persistant nature of the ROC. I see the propaganda of Québec separatism being about a land and money grab is still rampant, how can you possibly understand. Yes by all means, write your MP and insist they not intervene the next time quebeckers go to the polls. You'll contribute to saving Canada millions in corruption funds.

[Calumny]

Sometimes, I don't understand them either. <br /> <br />As concerns the comment 'we will be vilified and spewed with hate filled venom in the process', should the day comes that Canada and Quebec part ways, this may be true. <br /> <br />However, it is no less true for any individuals who have been involved in a close relationship. In any close relationship, disputes or partings of the way are often accompanied by acrimony and unpleasant statements, often uttered without true belief and at one who is often still loved. Whatever is true for individuals is generally true for the societies they comprise, and should be considered in that context. <br /> <br />A lot of the negative stuff from the ROC, as everyone calls it, results from misinformation or misunderstandings created and perpetuated by the media, to sell papers or to forward their own agendas, and self-serving politicians. Most of the reaction comes down to hurt feelings, because many Canadians believe, rightly or wrongly, that Quebec has been treated fairly and don't understand the Quebec sovereignest perspective. For most there's no hatred, or at least what I'd describe as hatred, just a lack of understanding and bruised feelings, and the types of statements that generally accompany the same. <br /> <br />My situation is that I have relationships with a number of Quebecois friends and colleagues that I do not wish to see harmed or jeopardized by whatever the future may bring. I also don't buy into the belief that the sky will necessarily fall for Canada should Quebec leave. If it does, it will not be primarily for that reason. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />