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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:27 pm
 


That is VERY true, now I wouldn't go counting the CPC or CPCML as actual political forces of any importance, but look at it from this perspective! The Liberals recieved only 33% of the vote in Quebec this time round, compared to 47% for the Bloc, but is that a majority for separatism, God NO! First of all the Blocheads didn't even campaign on separation this time (they actually rarely do, they just spring it on Quebeckers at the most convenient times). They tried to make themselves look like a reborn Quebecois Social Credit Party which will mearly look after the province's interests and will not try and push for separation, which is what they are already doing! <br /> <br />Anyway the Conservatives recieved almost 9% of the vote and the NDP 4.6%, with 3.2% for the Green Party and 0.1% each for the Marxist-Leninist Party (which actually is sympathetic towards separatism, but what else can you expect from a bunch of Maoist rejects) and for the federalist Marijuana Party. SO all in all that is over 49% for federalism (seeing as how all of the other small parties, CAP, Christian Heritage, etc. are federalist too) and 47% for seperatism. Remembering that the majority of Quebecois voters polled, the vast majority said that thy were not voting for the Bloc because they wanted separation from the rest of Canada! Hardly a mandate for separation. <br /> <br />Face it, separatism is dying! Quebec is not a nation and never will be, nor ever has been. It is a part of the greatest nation in the world! It was not forced to join Confederation against it's people's will, at a time when everyone else in the British Empire had their religion and language persecuted (like the Irish), Quebec's religion, language and customs were protected. They have contributed greatly towards the rest of our nation and the rest of our nation has contributed greatly towards Quebec! Quebec has nothing to gain from seperation, and I think the tribalist and ridiculous arguments made by the BQ and PQ to Quebeckers for separation are nothing more than an insult to the intelligence of French-Canadians, who happen to be a very intelligent people. <br /> <br />But as with everyobdy else, you always get some mindless reactionaries, don't think we don't have them in the Anglophone community!



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:56 am
 


[QUOTE BY= Macdonald/Borden] <br />Anyway the Conservatives recieved almost 9% of the vote and the NDP 4.6%, with 3.2% for the Green Party and 0.1% each for the Marxist-Leninist Party (which actually is sympathetic towards separatism, but what else can you expect from a bunch of Maoist rejects) and for the federalist Marijuana Party. SO all in all that is over 49% for federalism (seeing as how all of the other small parties, CAP, Christian Heritage, etc. are federalist too) and 47% for seperatism. Remembering that the majority of Quebecois voters polled, the vast majority said that thy were not voting for the Bloc because they wanted separation from the rest of Canada! Hardly a mandate for separation. <br /> <br />Face it, separatism is dying! Quebec is not a nation and never will be, nor ever has been. [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Conservatives received 9% and the NDP, 4.6%. True. But what makes you believe that these people wouldn't vote yes in a referendum? There is an important conservative base in Quebec, as shown by the support to Dumont. These people are nationalists. Dumont supported the yes side in 1995, and probably will should there be another referendum. <br /> <br />Same with the NDP. We have an important left in Quebec too, as shown by Françoise David and Paul Cliche's parties. Françoise David and Paul Cliche's parties will go for the yes too. <br /> <br />Now, if all these parties, plus the PQ, join forces for a yes to win, a yes will win. <br /> <br />After we are sovereign, we can decide what is good for us: the centre, the left or the right. <br /> <br />Your opinion whether Quebec is a nation or not is of no interest. Quebec knows what it is, and it will not let others debate as to its identity.





PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:19 am
 


Strange, my last post didn't show up. <br /> <br />Anyway, here's my answer to Mr. Borden. <br /> <br />True, the conservatives won 9% of the vote and the NDP 4,5%. But what makes you think these people won’t vote yes in the next referendum? Although these are federalist parties, the right and the left had more to play in the last federal elections, than the Quebec question. <br /> <br />There is an important conservative base in Quebec, as shown by the support to Dumont and the ADQ. The people in Quebec that voted for Harper will probably join the yes side, in the event of a referendum, just as Dumont joined the yes side in 1995. <br /> <br />There is also an important left base in Quebec. Françoise David and Paul Cliche will certainly join the yes side too, and will be followed by their supporters. That includes a lot of people for the yes side : all the PQs, Dumont, Françoise David and Paul Cliche. And, on top of it, the marxist leninists, etc. That will leave “Patapouf” Charest all by himself, with about 20% of the francophone support and that support is likely shrink as the referendum date approaches. <br /> <br />After sovereignty, Quebec can then decide, through elections, what is best : the centre, the left or the right. <br /> <br />Your comment as to Quebec not being a nation is of no interest. Quebec knows what it is and will not accept any verdict that may come out of deliberations as to its identity by English Canada. <br />


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:49 am
 


[QUOTE BY= Delenda Carthago] Your comment as to Quebec not being a nation is of no interest. Quebec knows what it is and will not accept any verdict that may come out of deliberations as to its identity by English Canada. <br />[/QUOTE]<BR><BR>I refer again to this poll: http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet ... ll20040907 . It seems to me that Quebec does indeed know what it is, and it thinks it is a province. Those Quebeckers polled who think Quebec is a province outnumber those who think it is a nation by a margin of almost two-to-one. And then, of course, there are those two referendums where a majority voted to remain a province instead of becoming a nation. You are right: Quebec knows what it is.





PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:53 am
 


[QUOTE BY= Ed King] [QUOTE BY= Delenda Carthago] Your comment as to Quebec not being a nation is of no interest. Quebec knows what it is and will not accept any verdict that may come out of deliberations as to its identity by English Canada. <br />[/QUOTE]<BR><BR>I refer again to this poll: http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet ... ll20040907 . It seems to me that Quebec does indeed know what it is, and it thinks it is a province. Those Quebeckers polled who think Quebec is a province outnumber those who think it is a nation by a margin of almost two-to-one. And then, of course, there are those two referendums where a majority voted to remain a province instead of becoming a nation. You are right: Quebec knows what it is.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />EdKing, as-tu lu l'article au complet : <br /> <br />"Facal points out just 20 per cent of Quebecers polled see Quebec as one of ten equal provinces"





PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:56 am
 


Cher Ed, en 1980, 40% se voyait comme nation. En 1995, 49,5% se voyait comme nation. Vous les fédéralistes n'arrêtez pas de nous dire que puisque le non a gagné, il faut arrêter de faire des référendum. <br /> <br />Moi, je crois que c'est le contraire. Vous avez peur d'un 3ième référendum car vous savez très bien qu'il va passer. <br />


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:07 am
 


Yeah, I read the whole article. The numbers Facal points to do not surprise me and do not in any way show that Quebeckers think their province is a nation. In fact, as I said above, almost two thirds of those polled think Quebec is a province.<BR><BR>Another referendum? If that's what we need to get the PQ to finally recognize the democratic will of the people, then sure, bring it on. Why should I be afraid of a referendum when there hasn't been any indication that a majority of Quebeckers want one? It'll be your movement's suicide, so that's fine by me. Only the PQ would make a promise to hold a referendum when current public opinion shows that one is not wanted. Go figure.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:18 am
 


P.S. I never said Quebec should stop having referendums. If a scientific poll showed that two thirds of Quebeckers wanted to leave Canada, then it would be a good time to have a vote. But when less than half of those polled routinely say that they want to seperate, why does Landry promise that Quebec will be independent in five years, or ten years, or whatever number he most recently pulled out of his arse? Bouchard had it right: you should not hold a referendum unless you think you can win. The problem with that for seperatists is that, at this rate, you'll never have one under those conditions.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:02 pm
 


Delenda if you were living somewhere in the ROC would you think it's fair that Quebec can keep on going on and on about seperation even after losing twice? <br /> <br />I've always believed if Quebecers wanted to be a nation it would have been done a long time ago like back in the 1950's.





PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:52 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= dino] Delenda if you were living somewhere in the ROC would you think it's fair that Quebec can keep on going on and on about seperation even after losing twice? <br /> <br />I've always believed if Quebecers wanted to be a nation it would have been done a long time ago like back in the 1950's.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Going on and on and on and on...2 referendums, in 250 years. There is no exageration here. The best way to stop referendums is to let Quebec go on the next one. After it is gone, you don't have to worry about another referendum any more. <br />





PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:55 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= Ed King]If that's what we need to get the PQ to finally recognize the democratic will of the people, then sure, bring it on. Why should I be afraid of a referendum when there hasn't been any indication that a majority of Quebeckers want one? [/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Fine with me. Then don't get involved with the next one. No "love" rallye and naturalization of immigrants at the last minute.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:58 pm
 


[QUOTE BY= Ed King] Samuel, Are you saying that it isn't intellectually dishonest to say that the Bloc won a majority of votes and back up your point by removing all the votes that went to third parties? Maybe you should've said a majority of Quebeckers who voted for the major parties support the Bloc. And the last time I checked, the Greens, Marxist-Leninists, Communists and pot-heads are not sovereignists. Therefore, a majority of Quebeckers voted for federalist parties.<BR><BR>So I guess when you are proven wrong, you question my intellect. My comment was not meant as an insult, it's just the way I evaluate your method of "proving" that a majority of Quebeckers voted for the Bloc. I repeat my question: is it not intellectually dishonest to remove 1.2% of voters' preferences in order to prove your point? Maybe I jumped the gun; where did you find results for the election that did not include the third parties? If you based your conclusion on incorrect numbers, then I apologize. But if you intentionally ignored 80,000 votes just to prove an incorrect conclusion, I call that intellectually dishonest.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Point taken, but I think although the Greens are certainly federalists, the Communists and Marxist-Leninists are a cross between Stalinists and Trotskyists, and on their websites they DO think Quebec "has the right to self-determination." In other words, they are not separatists, just allies of the cause.



"True nations are united by blood and soil, language, literature, history, faith, tradition and memory". -

-Patrick J. Buchanan





PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:08 pm
 


<br />wouldn't be sure ab <br /> <br />...although the Greens are certainly federalists... <br /> <br />I would tend to think they are not federalists. <br /> <br />


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:24 pm
 


Wierd that on a Canadian nationalist website we have a bunch of seperatists. While first of all according to a poll done by the PQ seperatism is becoming extremely unpopular fast with young Quebeckers, thats also what many other investigations are showing, regardless of what that pig Bernard Landry likes to say. Quebec can return to deciding between the Left/Right and Centre again after they finally through the seperatists out of the legislative assembly! <br /> <br />Also whats even more interesting is that the ADQ is no longer really seperatist and is trying to build a support base with conservative federalists!!!! Dumont is even thinking about striking seperation off the party's agenda! You're idea that only 20% of Quebeckers will support the no side is so ridiculous and out of touch with reality that it's sad. Besides that what happens after the "nation of Quebec" leaves Canada. Do you think that most of the 45-49% who would obviously still vote no in the event that you win will stay in Quebec?? You want to share our currency, well what on God's green earth makes you think that the Bank of Canada will give the government of an independent Quebec any seat or control over our monetary policy whatsoever. You'll be the only independent state on earth without the ability to control the currency you use, you're monetary policy will be subject to ours. <br /> <br />Besides that you do realize that most of the Aboriginals in northern Quebec are deadset against independence and would want to join Canada, besides that you're party of ethnic/racial tribalists is not only unpopular with roughly half of Francophone Quebeckers, but also <br />with Anglophone Quebeckers, non-Catholics and minorities, you're so called "Jews and the ethnic vote"! <br /> <br />The PQ has never even had the balls to put the real question down on a referendum of "do you want full independence from Canada", instead they say "do you want the government of Quebec to start negotiations for Sovereignty-Association". Even theough they have to know full well that no Canadian government would agree to economic association with a seperated Quebec. They've never even campaigned and won a provincial election on seperation, in the last federal election the Bloc didnt even campaign on a seperatist platform and promised not to push for a referendum, it was interesting to see the large numbers of Bloc voters polled who said they did not want seperation! <br /> <br />And yes my opinions regarding Quebec and the opinions of all Canadians regarding Quebec are of great concern as every corner north of the 49th parallel is all of our shared nation. We built this nation together on our sweat and blood and it will never be torn apart. My opinion matters just as much as Quebec's opinion matters regarding the rest of Canada. Wake up seperatists, Quebec is not Ireland or Tamil Ealam or Palestine, you as an ethnic community are part of a great democratic nation which has fully respected you're culture and values since day one! <br /> <br />Canada would not be Canada without Quebec and Quebec would not be Quebec without Canada. We belong together, it is very possible for 2,3,4,5 even 12 different linguistic groups to constitute one nation, just as Canada does! <br /> <br />VIVE LE CANADA! VIVE LE QUEBEC!



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 4:32 pm
 


You tell Ed King!!!!! <br />BRING IT ON!!!!



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