What are you talking about now, "not supported"? Where's the iOS 5 upgrade for iPhone 3g? With open source, the community is able to provide an Android 4 upgrade itself. That's not possible in the proprietary world of apple. The nexus one is still supported, even without an ice cream sandwich upgrade, and you can upgrade it if that's what you want.
Curtman
CKA Elite
Posts: 3552
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:10 am
Scape wrote:
If Android had their shit together then why don't they have their devices being picked up by major institutions en masse? They are cheaper aren't they after all and have better hardware right?
During the three-month period ended September 30, 60.5 million Android-based smartphones shipped worldwide, helping the mobile operating system secure 52.5 percent of the space, research firm Gartner revealed today. In just one year, Android has more than doubled its market share, which during the third quarter of 2010, stood at 25.3 percent. Furthermore, smartphone shipments just about tripled this year from the 20.5 million that hit store shelves last year.
All that success was detrimental to Apple, Gartner found. Whereas last year, Apple secured 16.6 percent of the smartphone market in the third quarter with 13.5 million shipments, the company's iOS platform was only able to muster 15 percent market share last quarter on 17.3 million iPhones sold.
What are you talking about now, "not supported"? Where's the iOS 5 upgrade for iPhone 3g? With open source, the community is able to provide an Android 4 upgrade itself. That's not possible in the proprietary world of apple. The nexus one is still supported, even without an ice cream sandwich upgrade, and you can upgrade it if that's what you want.
3G came out in 2007 not 2010 like the Nexus. As far as not supporting a 4+ year old phone the processor may be able to be jailbroken to support Siri but it is and old phone. It would be like having to run windows 7 on a PC that was sold with windows 95, it could work by why would you?
Even when Android handsets do get updates, it can take eons. Sprint’s Epic 4G, for instance, just got Gingerbread, almost a year after the software shipped. For Epic owners, Gingerbread finally showing up was less a happy event than a brusque reminder that they shouldn’t count on seeing Ice Cream Sandwich any time soon.
IOS upgrades are not carrier dependent like android.
What are you talking about now, "not supported"? Where's the iOS 5 upgrade for iPhone 3g? With open source, the community is able to provide an Android 4 upgrade itself. That's not possible in the proprietary world of apple. The nexus one is still supported, even without an ice cream sandwich upgrade, and you can upgrade it if that's what you want.
3G came out in 2007 not 2010 like the Nexus. As far as not supporting a 4+ year old phone the processor may be able to be jailbroken to support Siri but it is and old phone. It would be like having to run windows 7 on a PC that was sold with windows 95, it could work by why would you?
Even when Android handsets do get updates, it can take eons. Sprint’s Epic 4G, for instance, just got Gingerbread, almost a year after the software shipped. For Epic owners, Gingerbread finally showing up was less a happy event than a brusque reminder that they shouldn’t count on seeing Ice Cream Sandwich any time soon.
IOS upgrades are not carrier dependent like android.
No. The original iPhone came out in 2007, not the 3G.. The last release of iOS to support the 3G was 4.2.1, which was released on November 22, 2010.
The Nexus One is still supported, and receives updates to Android "Gingerbread", and like I said, you can upgrade it to Android 4 if you want. There is nothing stopping you from upgrading your Android phone at any time like there is with an iPhone. Most anyone who cares about these things either does it themselves, or goes with a community mod like cyanogenmod.
Android upgrades are not carrier dependent. You can always update at any time, without waiting for your carrier to "push" the update. With an iPhone, you must wait for Apple to decide when/if you will get the update.
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18779
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:04 am
Scape wrote:
Iphone ubiquity is because it is open sourced?
Haha Whoops, completely skipped over that.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with the stupidity of the masses, although it good to see your hate isn't truly at Apple and their products but at people at large I guess.
Accurate. Do you know how many times someone asks me to fix their computer cause it's running slow and they are running IE with 8968679567 toolbars? And then when I go to change it they freak out. The vast majority of people are technologically incompetent.
Quote:
It is the security android come up short on. That's why firms don't sign off on the Google phones on large scale and it is a major deterrent to major institutions that could be sued out of existence if they are party to unsecured software.
Define security. Android is no less secure than IOS, they both have vulnerabilities that can be exploited. Blackberry is the only one that has a claim of security.
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They have as much of a free hand making their own custom software with support from Apple or Microsoft directly on the big ticket items, far more so then Google can.
Not sure what you mean here.
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In fact Microsoft may be Apples bigger threat when it comes to providing software to large firms.
That's obvious.
Quote:
It is not people that are 'content' with sub-par phones, it is the providers who don't want to invest in R&D like AT&T. They are interested in paying subscribers not giving you free text messaging. To them you are a revenue stream and the only way around that is to bypass them outright. You can see that if Google, APPLE and Microsoft cut out the providers and gave access directly but that is a ways off yet.
People absolutely are content with sub-par phones, and, by extension, computers. How many people you know go out and spend 1000 dollars on a prebuilt tower from Dell? When with that money they could probably build a computer that runs BF3 at full graphics. Cause they're lazy and stupid.
Tricks
CKA Uber
Posts: 18779
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:06 am
Curtman wrote:
No. The original iPhone came out in 2007, not the 3G.. The last release of iOS to support the 3G was 4.2.1, which was released on November 22, 2010.
The Nexus One is still supported, and receives updates to Android "Gingerbread", and like I said, you can upgrade it to Android 4 if you want. There is nothing stopping you from upgrading your Android phone at any time like there is with an iPhone. Most anyone who cares about these things either does it themselves, or goes with a community mod like cyanogenmod.
Android upgrades are not carrier dependent. You can always update at any time, without waiting for your carrier to "push" the update. With an iPhone, you must wait for Apple to decide when/if you will get the update.
This. And it just comes back to my "people are stupid" comment. People don't realise they don't need to wait for the carrier, they can just do it themselves. That's probably one of google's downfalls. They're expecting people to not be so bad at this.
Scape
CKA Moderator
Posts: 14939
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:19 am
I wish that were the case but no. Carriers have proprietary agreements in place that supersede the software. Just look at tethering, the networks simply can not handle the strain on the data so they hardwire the software to the provider. There is no if and or buts about this, that is there upon the carriers instance or they simply do not carry the phone.
Curtman
CKA Elite
Posts: 3552
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:30 am
Scape wrote:
I wish that were the case but no. Carriers have proprietary agreements in place that supersede the software. Just look at tethering, the networks simply can not handle the strain on the data so they hardwire the software to the provider. There is no if and or buts about this, that is there upon the carriers instance or they simply do not carry the phone.
I can do tethering with my Nexus S. Either with USB, or with a portable hotspot, where up to 25 wifi users can get net through my phone. Its part of the stock firmware. Even on Verizon (the only carrier I know that removed the option from their android), you can install cyanogenmod and you've got tethering again.
Scape
CKA Moderator
Posts: 14939
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:22 pm
So you can but the carriers can make that based upon their agreement:
I understand the point that you are trying to make. You are saying this is a deficiency of android, and its simply not true. If you own an iphone or iPod and were unfortunate enough to upgrade to ios 4.3.5, you are SOL if you want to jailbreak it and run apps from outside the iTunes market. This is not the case with android. If you buy a nexus phone you can install anything you want. Its a deficiency of apple products. Ask someone with an old G4 desktop. The only way to get an up to date OS for it is to install Linux on it. You don't even have that option with an iPhone.
Scape
CKA Moderator
Posts: 14939
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:39 am
I'm not convinced we are talking about the same concept though. The question was originally that brought the thread to this point was why big firms and organizations are picking up IOS devices in large quantities. The argument I am making is their ubiquity is based upon uniformity from the end user through the service provider and back to the manufacturer. All of those elements need to play by the same set of rules to induce a climate of stability that these larger organizations will sign off on. Being able to mod your phone because the manufacture has an OS that allows you to do that created by the manufacture is one thing but if the carrier is not signed off on that process (and I brought the example of tethering here to illustrate) means the whole construct falls apart like a house of cards.
For example, if you deal with a great deal of sensitive information that is subject to the privacy act and ongoing audits you want to be sure not everyone on the these devices are downloading virus ridden, keylogging riddled programs that will not be subject to some form of cross reference. I am not fear mongering here, there is a lot of education based applications that can be applied on these platforms but if there is no trust they can not function. This is the primary reason for the IOS 'walled garden' approach.
What Apple has done has effectively bypassed that so that medical students can now use a single platform with a universally understandable format. There may be other ways that Android does the same thing but the principal that APple is using here is the same one Starbucks or MacDonalds has used to make world wide empires. You step into a Macdonald in China and the Big mac you order will be the same you get in Toronto. You order an Ipad in London and download Itunes in New york you will have the same quality of service.
Not to say that the development wont also go to other platforms but IOS will get the biggest and best know 1st because they have secured the market with their brand and they have squelched out the manufacturing and application process to maximize profits thus ensuring long term stability. Apps such as Epocrates requires millions of dollars to maintain their extensive database, they made it on IOS 1s because the demand was to be there 1st by the medical professionals. True, your going to have access to Medscape on android but the students will be using Ipads provided by the university 1st to use it because the university was convinced of the value of an Ipad over the competition in schools.
Curtman
CKA Elite
Posts: 3552
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:02 am
Scape wrote:
I'm not convinced we are talking about the same concept though. The question was originally that brought the thread to this point was why big firms and organizations are picking up IOS devices in large quantities.
Thats easy. That's the way Apple operates and always has. That's why every school when I was growing up, from elementary through high school was full of Apple IIe's then the goofy black and white Mac, then the newer Macs. It wasn't because they were better machines, or more popular, or had better software, were more secure, or anything like that. None of those were true of them. Apple wanted them there, so they sold them at whatever price was necessary to get them there. It was important to them that kids get used to them.
Scape wrote:
The argument I am making is their ubiquity is based upon uniformity from the end user through the service provider and back to the manufacturer. All of those elements need to play by the same set of rules to induce a climate of stability that these larger organizations will sign off on. Being able to mod your phone because the manufacture has an OS that allows you to do that created by the manufacture is one thing but if the carrier is not signed off on that process (and I brought the example of tethering here to illustrate) means the whole construct falls apart like a house of cards.
For example, if you deal with a great deal of sensitive information that is subject to the privacy act and ongoing audits you want to be sure not everyone on the these devices are downloading virus ridden, keylogging riddled programs that will not be subject to some form of cross reference. I am not fear mongering here, there is a lot of education based applications that can be applied on these platforms but if there is no trust they can not function. This is the primary reason for the IOS 'walled garden' approach.
What Apple has done has effectively bypassed that so that medical students can now use a single platform with a universally understandable format. There may be other ways that Android does the same thing but the principal that APple is using here is the same one Starbucks or MacDonalds has used to make world wide empires. You step into a Macdonald in China and the Big mac you order will be the same you get in Toronto. You order an Ipad in London and download Itunes in New york you will have the same quality of service.
At the SysCan conference in Taiwan next week, Miller plans to present a method that exploits a flaw in Apple’s restrictions on code signing on iOS devices, the security measure that allows only Apple-approved commands to run in an iPhone or iPad’s memory. Using his method–and Miller has already planted a sleeper app in Apple’s App Store to demonstrate the trick–an app can phone home to a remote computer that downloads new unapproved commands onto the device and executes them at will, including stealing the user’s photos, reading contacts, making the phone vibrate or play sounds, or otherwise repurposing normal iOS app functions for malicious ends.
It's like when you look at nature, a community of organisms that lacks diversity is in danger, not more secure. Android is a hard platform to attack because as an attacker, you don't know what hardware the target is using, you don't know what version of Android, or if it is an "official" Android even. There's many eyes on the apps in the market, and any malicious ones are removed in seconds. I'm curious how many people are using the Cydia store on their idevices. Obviously Apple sees this as a huge problem, or they wouldn't go to such great lengths to make sure people can't jailbreak their devices and get access to it. The walled garden only needs a single point of failure to be worthless at protection. If it was a good method of security, Windows machines would be famous for their infallible security, but they aren't.
Scape wrote:
Not to say that the development wont also go to other platforms but IOS will get the biggest and best know 1st because they have secured the market with their brand and they have squelched out the manufacturing and application process to maximize profits thus ensuring long term stability. Apps such as Epocrates requires millions of dollars to maintain their extensive database, they made it on IOS 1s because the demand was to be there 1st by the medical professionals. True, your going to have access to Medscape on android but the students will be using Ipads provided by the university 1st to use it because the university was convinced of the value of an Ipad over the competition in schools.
The university will buy whatever crap is offered to them at a discount rate. They'll have some good devices around for the geeks who care, but they'll buy from anyone who gives them a deal.
Scape
CKA Moderator
Posts: 14939
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:21 pm
Can't go over point by point as I am pressed for time. I will bring this to your attention about Android security:
Android is definitely winning… the race for the most malware, that is.
According to a new study from the Juniper Global Threat Center, malware on Android rose an incredible 472% since July 2011. That’s only a few months.
That's a major problem. There are no unlockable locks, there is not perfect security solution but that being said Android has huge problems in terms of malware and security. I have problems with my wife having an android phone, imagine how a major firm feels about this.
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