[westmanguy]

Whats your position?

I am illegal with exceptions.

[hwacker]

If murder is illegal so is abortion.

[westmanguy]

Pretty much.

Its a stage of human life, so its basically cold blooded murder, which we've been coddled to accept...

[hwacker]

Where's that POS PET?

[icekarma2752]

in this day and age with the state of the art birth control at our disposal theres no excuse for abortion(aside from the endangerment of the mothers life)

[westmanguy]

icekarma2752 wrote:

in this day and age with the state of the art birth control at our disposal theres no excuse for abortion(aside from the endangerment of the mothers life)

Exactly. There is many means of birth control + condoms.

If you put yourself under the influence (alcohol or drugs), then you accept responsibility for your actions.

Only reason to abort is endagerment to mom's life.

[TattoodGirl]

westmanguy wrote:

icekarma2752 wrote:

in this day and age with the state of the art birth control at our disposal theres no excuse for abortion(aside from the endangerment of the mothers life)

Exactly. There is many means of birth control + condoms.

If you put yourself under the influence (alcohol or drugs), then you accept responsibility for your actions.

Only reason to abort is endagerment to mom's life.

I may need clarity hear, but what im am reading is that if someone is under the influence then rape is justified. The reason I am interpreting it this way because you state that the only reason abortion should be accepted is if the mothers life is endangered. Could you clarify?

[michi]

What about a 14 year old that has been brutally raped and ends up pregnant would you have that CHILD keep the baby even though it is a constant reminder of that trauma!!
I am sorry but if my 15 year old was raped I would probably tell her to abort.

Quote:

Exactly. There is many means of birth control + condoms.

If you put yourself under the influence (alcohol or drugs), then you accept responsibility for your actions.

not all birth control works and condoms break
I have 3 kids and was on the pill for all 3

[Dayseed]

Any limitation on a woman's right to receive an abortion is an infringement of her right to security of the person. It doesn't matter about the rights of the foetus, the woman is in the here and now and can meaningfully exercise those rights.

I agree that the decision to abort isn't an entirely medical decision, nor is it strictly a legal decision. There are profound social implications for the woman who chooses either way concerning an abortion. It's going to affect her mate, her family, her friends, her career, how she sees herself.

For the state to in turn deny a woman that right to choose those social implications, moral implications and medical implications about her own life is an egregious breach of her right to security of her person. To add on to that the added pressure of the state adding criminal sanction to her decision places any sort of limitation on abortion well beyond the intention of S. 1 of the Charter.

Whether or not people agree with abortions, the rights of the woman are paramount. I wouldn't see them sacrificed for anything.

[TattoodGirl]

Dayseed wrote:

Any limitation on a woman's right to receive an abortion is an infringement of her right to security of the person. It doesn't matter about the rights of the foetus, the woman is in the here and now and can meaningfully exercise those rights.

I agree that the decision to abort isn't an entirely medical decision, nor is it strictly a legal decision. There are profound social implications for the woman who chooses either way concerning an abortion. It's going to affect her mate, her family, her friends, her career, how she sees herself.

For the state to in turn deny a woman that right to choose those social implications, moral implications and medical implications about her own life is an egregious breach of her right to security of her person. To add on to that the added pressure of the state adding criminal sanction to her decision places any sort of limitation on abortion well beyond the intention of S. 1 of the Charter.

Whether or not people agree with abortions, the rights of the woman are paramount. I wouldn't see them sacrificed for anything.

[BartSimpson]

michi wrote:

What about a 14 year old that has been brutally raped and ends up pregnant would you have that CHILD keep the baby even though it is a constant reminder of that trauma!!

The US Centers for Disease Control did a study on this very subject and found that among rape survivors who were impregnated (a very small number of rape victims to begin with) the suicide rate nearly tripled amongst those who aborted their babies as compared to those who carried them to term. The CDC conclusion was that 'the interests of the mother' in these cases is statsitically best served by carrying the unfortunate child to term.

There's just no good answer in that horrific circumstance, but putting aside my pro-life leanings here, the rational argument is against abortion at least for this small group as having an abortion triples their suicide rate.

I would not outlaw the choice, mind you, but I would insist on very serious counseling BEFORE an abortion took place and then if abortion was the choice I would require mandatory follow-up counseling to prevent suicide or suicidal feelings in the victims. Absent that counseling I would opt to ban abortion for these women as it is statistically in their best interest.

[Oreo]

I would have to say that it is a womans right to decide. I guess the mans as well.

Accidents do happen, you can try and protect yourself from becoming pregnant, but these things do happen.
I think that it is up to the people involved.

However, I do not agree with abortion being used as a repeaded means of birth control. I know some people out there dont care cause they know they can get an abortion, but there are those of us who would never do that kind of thing.......unless there was no other choice (read between the lines as u see fit)

[Dayseed]

Oreo wrote:

I would have to say that it is a womans right to decide. I guess the mans as well.

It's never been made clear as to what people mean when they say the man has a right to decide. How would the state uphold his right? Whose right would supersede whose? How could a woman who has determined she is having one have the choice regarding her own body be overriden by somebody else?

Bart,

Again, abortion is a pretty ugly choice. There's merit to saying the state should make plain any available counselling before a woman completes the choice and perhaps offer it again afterwards, but any legislation which would make such counselling compulsory before the procedure is too much.

[Josephine]

I agree with Dayseed. It's a woman's choice and it's never and easy one.


One can't state that all life is important, except if a woman is raped. If all life is important and murder is murder, it shouldn't matter why.



It all comes down to the woman's right to choose. She can take her partners opinion into consideration and accept that consequences of her decision, but no one's opinion or decision should supercede the woman's in regards to her own body.

[Josephine]

BartSimpson wrote:

michi wrote:

What about a 14 year old that has been brutally raped and ends up pregnant would you have that CHILD keep the baby even though it is a constant reminder of that trauma!!

The US Centers for Disease Control did a study on this very subject and found that among rape survivors who were impregnated (a very small number of rape victims to begin with) the suicide rate nearly tripled amongst those who aborted their babies as compared to those who carried them to term. The CDC conclusion was that 'the interests of the mother' in these cases is statsitically best served by carrying the unfortunate child to term.

There's just no good answer in that horrific circumstance, but putting aside my pro-life leanings here, the rational argument is against abortion at least for this small group as having an abortion triples their suicide rate.

I would not outlaw the choice, mind you, but I would insist on very serious counseling BEFORE an abortion took place and then if abortion was the choice I would require mandatory follow-up counseling to prevent suicide or suicidal feelings in the victims. Absent that counseling I would opt to ban abortion for these women as it is statistically in their best interest.

Sorry...can you please provide the article or study...I can't locate any reference to this study on their website.