[Coach85]

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Let me try again: the vast majority of TFW (the “hundreds of thousands”) are farm workers.

Wrong.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Ok I’m not supposed to call people names anymore but when you just copy-pasty from Wikipedia with no real understanding of what you’re reading what else am I supposed to do?

That's because it only takes 10 seconds on Wiki to show how wrong you are.

$1:

Ok I’m not supposed to call people names anymore....
Let me try again: the vast majority of TFW (the “hundreds of thousands”) are farm workers. Get it, you unbelievable genius? Of the ones who aren’t farm workers, most are live-in caregivers aka nannies. There are some TFW working in restaurants but relatively few they’re certainly no setting the wage you magnificent great thinker you!

Well let's face it, you aren't going to change anything anyway.
Why not just come out and admit it ?[/quote]

Nothing you shared proved he was wrong. In fact, it shows almost nothing but the number of workers, not where they work.

[Coach85]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Everyone who is unhappy with their salary should either go back to school and get skills that the market place needs.

That's the answer! I must do that right away!



I've been in the paint industry for almost 18 years, gaining experience over that time, working hard, and was always moving up in the retail aspect of the industry. I worked for over 10 years with one company, and in May of 2017 took a local position at a store that needed to boost sales in their paint department (80& of the store is carpet and tiles). I did just that, bringing in products that I sold in Toronto, and moving lots of epoxies and stuff they had never really done much with before I arrived.

I was being groomed to run a satellite store, finally on my way to management. I've always wanted to run a paint store and use my own knowledge/skills/style to make it grow. And then, in May of this year, the morning I booked some vacation time with the boss, he calls me back in later in the day and hands me employment records and a SMALL payout and says, "We're going in a different direction. Happy trails."

I was off work for almost seven weeks. None of my friends/contacts in the industry could get me in anywhere. Even with my extensive experience in paint (residential/commerical/industrial), there were no openings or anything. At the beginning of July, I took a much lower paying job at the local hardware store. I wasn't by any means rich before, managing to pay my bills and have a little left over. Now, I'll have nothing left over. I've always lived within my means, but now it's going to be a struggle. I'm looking at taking a second and maybe third job just to make up the lost $$$.

Go back to school? Are you kidding me? I came out of college the first time around (2000) after studying Digital Media Productions and HTML Programming only to find out (as most of my program did) that there were NO jobs. Only ONE person got a job because he moved his life to California, bouncing from place to place for many years before getting an entry level job in the computer industry. I would never consider going back to school, especially now.

I haven't given up, however. I fully intend to one day be running a paint store.

But, as I have explained here, you can have all the skills/experience in the world, and STILL hit a brick wall. I've been busting my ass in the industry for almost 18 years, even researching and learning more about certain paints and coatings in my spare time at home to become a better salesman/expert, and look where it got me!

People need to think before they speak.

'Nuff said.

-J.

If I may interject and offer some advice, your problem is tunnel vision in an specific retail industry that's dying. I'm not saying this to be mean or insulting, just trying to help.

The days of the paint store are over. Sure, there are a few here and there, but overall, it'a dying breed.

You should take what you've learned, especially as it pertains to dealing with people and selling and move into a related field with growth opportunity. Buy yourself a hardware store which allows you to still work with products you like and make a decent living.

There are so many options for someone with your skillset. Don't be so focused on one industry.

[BartSimpson]

Speaking of paychecks mine just showed up with another $600 on it!

[Freakinoldguy]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

The problem isn't that pay is too low it's that people insist on spending every single penny they get and sometimes before they get it.

Savings and living debt free used to be considered virtuous behaviors and now they're scoffed at while many people finance their credit card payments with a new credit card.

Yeah but back in the “good old days” double-digit interest rates made it easy to save. In 1980 the interest rate was 20% and the following year you could get 12% interest in a simple personal banking account. Imagine that! Do you know how much market risk you would have to take on to get that kind of return today? You’re lucky if your investment portfolio can consistently return 4 or 5% and personal banking now pays negative interest once all the new fees they’re introduced of the past couple of decades are accounted fir.

They also made it very difficult to borrow so you had to be fairly well off just to qualify for a credit card or bank loan of any real size. There were no payday lenders or discount credit cards like Capital One or MBNA back then. If you wanted to borrow money you had to put on your best suit, make an appointment with a bank manager and present your application like you were interviewing for a job.

Today western countries deliberately keep interest rates relatively low and recessions every 5-10 years keep it from growing unchecked but it does make it harder to save and easier to borrow. It’s also why employers have been closing pension plans over the past few decades, as low interest means it costs them too much to save the necessary funds.

High interest rates are a double edged sword. It's great for people who are saving money or living on a portfolio but it's terrible for people who are trying to buy a home. As it stands now people can still (sort of afford) a house so long as they avoid the major populations centers but the second the interest rate goes up that option goes by the wayside. There's also the problem that if interest rates stay middling then people still can't afford a home and still can't afford to live off their saving which means it's a lose lose situation.

So there is no real benefit for either high interest rates and low interest rates because no matter the rate some segment of society will end up being the loser.

But this all may be a moot point because at some point all minimum wage jobs will be taken over by robots or TFW's meaning if you don't upgrade you don't eat especially since nobody's going to voluntarily fund a no work for a living wage socialist scheme, not even gov'ts who'd be slitting their own throats with their contibutors who'd be the ones who'd have to pay for it.

[Sunnyways]

martin14 martin14:

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

Our whole culture teaches

Our whole culture used to be quite different in that regard.


Low income can be solved by economic growth.

I was talking about spending there, not wages. At the risk of sounding like the peevish old geezer I am....brand culture is something we cannot blame on immigrants. It goes along with reality shows and endless celeb chatter. Fortunately, there are a few younger guys bucking the trend:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com

[martin14]

Coach85 Coach85:

it shows almost nothing but the number of workers, not where they work.

Yeah, sure, good luck finding that.
It is also really difficult to find anything after 2015.
Can't imagine what happened in 2015 to change the release of information.

The leftists are always so quick to blame business, always forgetting
it is government who sets the rules. Including who gets to work.
Government has let in a million illegals, depressing wages and yes even creating
a very dark underclass inside Canada.

The same dumb mistakes the US, the UK and Germany has made.

herbie herbie:

It is based on the simple principle that if my work help make you money, I am valuable to you. If I make you MORE money, you should give ME a bigger slice.

Why ?

Sunnyways Sunnyways:

I was talking about spending there, not wages. At the risk of sounding like the peevish old geezer I am....brand culture is something we cannot blame on immigrants.

I mentioned earlier, the culture has changed.
What the previous generations had learned and could have taught, has been frittered away.
The 2008 crash was only a taste of what will come in the future.

[Thanos]

bootlegga bootlegga:

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Everyone who is unhappy with their salary should either go back to school and get skills that the market place needs.

That's the answer! I must do that right away!



I've been in the paint industry for almost 18 years, gaining experience over that time, working hard, and was always moving up in the retail aspect of the industry. I worked for over 10 years with one company, and in May of 2017 took a local position at a store that needed to boost sales in their paint department (80& of the store is carpet and tiles). I did just that, bringing in products that I sold in Toronto, and moving lots of epoxies and stuff they had never really done much with before I arrived.

I was being groomed to run a satellite store, finally on my way to management. I've always wanted to run a paint store and use my own knowledge/skills/style to make it grow. And then, in May of this year, the morning I booked some vacation time with the boss, he calls me back in later in the day and hands me employment records and a SMALL payout and says, "We're going in a different direction. Happy trails."

I was off work for almost seven weeks. None of my friends/contacts in the industry could get me in anywhere. Even with my extensive experience in paint (residential/commerical/industrial), there were no openings or anything. At the beginning of July, I took a much lower paying job at the local hardware store. I wasn't by any means rich before, managing to pay my bills and have a little left over. Now, I'll have nothing left over. I've always lived within my means, but now it's going to be a struggle. I'm looking at taking a second and maybe third job just to make up the lost $$$.

Go back to school? Are you kidding me? I came out of college the first time around (2000) after studying Digital Media Productions and HTML Programming only to find out (as most of my program did) that there were NO jobs. Only ONE person got a job because he moved his life to California, bouncing from place to place for many years before getting an entry level job in the computer industry. I would never consider going back to school, especially now.

I haven't given up, however. I fully intend to one day be running a paint store.

But, as I have explained here, you can have all the skills/experience in the world, and STILL hit a brick wall. I've been busting my ass in the industry for almost 18 years, even researching and learning more about certain paints and coatings in my spare time at home to become a better salesman/expert, and look where it got me!

People need to think before they speak.

'Nuff said.

-J.

Like I tell my daughter, "Life isn't fair."

I've had five or six different careers in my 30+ years working and have gone back to school two times, in addition to all the night/weekend courses and extra skills training I took in between.

First I got a BA - while working full time in retail at minimum wage ($7/hour) - which turned out to be almost useless because I foolishly got a degree in something I was interested in instead of a professional field (engineering, pharmacy, education, medicine, etc.) that would have gotten me a career instead of a job.

Then a decade later, I went back to get a Masters that would help me start a real career. I graduated with a Masters degree at 41 shortly after my daughter's first birthday. Oh yeah, I also got laid off from my FT job halfway through my Masters too.

Sometimes life sucks and you just have to deal with it. Roll up sleeves and get to work improving yourself - your success (whether it's personal, financial, spiritual, etc.) is entirely based on how much effort YOU put in, period.

Anyone who thinks they can go to school and get a degree/diploma and never have to learn anything again has their head up their ass. In the 21st century, the ones who succeed are the ones who keep learning all life long - and that is true whether your a plumber, a doctor or an administrative assistant.

Good luck in finding your dream, and perhaps the best way to do that is go back to school and get an MBA or something business related. As I've said throughout this thread, anything worthwhile takes a lot of hard work and quite often, sacrifice.

I think his overall point is that it's a lot easier said than done for most people because the resources just aren't there. If he spends most of his yearly revenue on simple cost of living then there wouldn't much left over for more school, especially an entire career-changing program that requires two-to-four years at college to get a diploma or degree. And, even if he wanted to go back to school, thanks to decades now of provincial governments playing Austerity Hero he's probably ineligible for student loans because he was employed for too many years in a row. Welfare won't help much either because, going by Alberta's example, a person on support gets around $500 tops per year for training - what the fuck kind of certificate is anyone going to get with that ridiculously low amount of help, something from bartending school?

No offense to anyone here who's done it but if someone has the luxury to take time off for a couple of years or more for school because they have a working spouse then they're living a fucking dream existence. Whatever sacrifices they're making is nothing compared to how demoralizing it is for a single person on their own to have the rug pulled out from underneath them with a career-shattering job loss and then to find out there's little to no assistance available to them when they need it the most. This is a huge factor in the epidemic of formerly self-sufficient people being booted out of the middle class into the category of working poor. The odds that they'll ever recover their previous status is unlikely at best, no matter how hard they try to get back on their feet again. Saying something like "life isn't fair" to someone who finds out the hard way how completely disposable they are in this putrid society of ours is one of the cruelest things someone who isn't (and never will be) in the same sinking boat can every say.

[Coach85]

Thanos Thanos:

No offense to anyone here who's done it but if someone has the luxury to take time off for a couple of years or more for school because they have a working spouse then they're living a fucking dream existence. Whatever sacrifices they're making is nothing compared to how demoralizing it is for a single person on their own to have the rug pulled out from underneath them with a career-shattering job loss and then to find out there's little to no assistance available to them when they need it the most. This is a huge factor in the epidemic of formerly self-sufficient people being booted out of the middle class into the category of working poor. The odds that they'll ever recover their previous status is unlikely at best, no matter how hard they try to get back on their feet again. Saying something like "life isn't fair" to someone who finds out the hard way how completely disposable they are in this putrid society of ours is one of the cruelest things someone who isn't (and never will be) in the same sinking boat can every say.

It's not cruel. Nobody owes you anything. So many people have had the rug pulled out beneath them with kids and a mortgage and guess what, they get back on their feet. That situation is far from unique.

The worst thing you can do is fall into this perpetual cycle of doubting yourself.

[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

The worst thing you can do is fall into this perpetual cycle of doubting yourself.

[Thanos]

Like I said, for most who end up in this situation it's far easier said than done. No one who hasn't ever ended up totally broken in this way will never understand what it's like.

[Robair]

Coach85 Coach85:

It's not cruel. Nobody owes you anything. So many people have had the rug pulled out beneath them with kids and a mortgage and guess what, they get back on their feet. That situation is far from unique.

The worst thing you can do is fall into this perpetual cycle of doubting yourself.

Good coaching

[DrCaleb]

Thanos Thanos:

Like I said, for most who end up in this situation it's far easier said than done. No one who hasn't ever ended up totally broken in this way will never understand what it's like.

I once considered if I'd have to eat my pets in order to survive, because it was looking like not only could I not feed myself, I didn't want to watch them starve too. I decided I would not watch them starve, but I also would not eat them.

We've all had it bad. But I always took my fathers' advice that 'any job at all is better than no job'. Because of that advice, I've had some odd jobs because I applied for everything and took the first one offered. I didn't starve, and neither did any pet.

[Robair]

Poorest I've ever been was putting myself through school. Towards the end I was buying groceries on my credit card and not making payments. Got my education and a black mark on my credit rating.

Related note: anybody else here ever have wiener water soup? Water still on the stove from yesterday's hot dogs. Warm it back up, had that and crackers in the house.

[martin14]

Robair Robair:

Poorest I've ever been was putting myself through school. Towards the end I was buying groceries on my credit card and not making payments. Got my education and a black mark on my credit rating.

Related note: anybody else here ever have wiener water soup? Water still on the stove from yesterday's hot dogs. Warm it back up, had that and crackers in the house.

You had a stove ?
Aspirational Capitalist Pig.




I've been down to living in the car,
there are reasons I loved my Torino.

[llama66]

martin14 martin14:

Robair Robair:

Poorest I've ever been was putting myself through school. Towards the end I was buying groceries on my credit card and not making payments. Got my education and a black mark on my credit rating.

Related note: anybody else here ever have wiener water soup? Water still on the stove from yesterday's hot dogs. Warm it back up, had that and crackers in the house.

You had a stove ?
Aspirational Capitalist Pig.




I've been down to living in the car,
there are reasons I loved my Torino.

You have a car? how very un-proletariat of you. I live like true people of the state should live... in a cardboard box provided by the state.