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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:31 am
 


Quote:
You do realize the bulk of the deforestation going on is due to illegal activities, right? And that it's not just Brazil that's affected by it, right? And the 20% oxygen thing is bullshit. 5000 years ago the Brazilian rain forest did not exist. It was woodland with lush grass lands interspersed. The formation of the Sahara Desert is the reason the Amazon exists. So you can't tell me that over 5000 years ago humans were choking to breathe because the Amazon didn't exist.


There were also only ~5 million people alive globally. That's irrelevant.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:45 am
 


xerxes wrote:
And before that, there was a military junta, the kind Bolsanaro is probably going to turn Brazil into.

It's also worth noting that the previous governments tried to curb the illegal deforestation in spite of their corruption.

Also. The Moonie Times? Do better.


Sorry, forgot. You guys prefer your Wikipedia.

The Military Junta ran Brazil for 21 years ending in 1985. 34 years ago.

Quote:
In the 1989 election, the PT formed a socialist coalition with the PSB and PC do B and had Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva as its presidential candidate. Although feared by the elite for proposing land reform, Lula declared that neither him or his party have ever been Marxist in a televised debate. The democratic socialist Democratic Labour Party (Partido Democrático Trabalhista – PDT), the only Brazilian member of the Socialist International, which claimed to be the actual heir of Goulart's and Vargas' Brazilian Labour Party (Partido Trabalhista Brasileiro – PTB), launched Leonel Brizola as their presidential candidate. Lula narrowly beat Brizola in the first-round and went on to the second round of the election, losing to neoliberal candidate Fernando Collor de Mello.

After two unsuccessful attempts (losing both to Fernando Henrique Cardoso, a Social-Democrat, who soon adhered to the Third Way neoliberal agenda), Lula was eventually elected in 2002. In spite of criticism of his government for alliances with right-wing politicians and practicing some unorthodox neoliberal politics,[2] which caused the departure of some factions of the PT, Lula claims he still has "socialist skills".[3] A major departure from his government and his party was from the group which created the Socialism and Liberty Party (Partido Socialismo e Liberdade – PSOL). In 2010, PT's Dilma Rousseff was elected the first female President of Brazil. During her term, there were widespread protests for better living standards, in which PT was criticized for distancing itself from social movements and youth organizations; for many it seems the PT's reformist model of left-wing politics is reaching its limits.[2]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... _in_Brazil

I still think you need to give Bolsonaro more than a half a year before you start telling us he's responsible for the half century of rain forest devastation. Whatever started this year's fires was in play before he took over. It's a problem he took over. Let's see how he deals with it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:19 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
You do realize the bulk of the deforestation going on is due to illegal activities, right?
Says who? The guy who has scaled back efforts to fight illegal deforestation? And that deforestation has increased dramatically since he came into office? But sure, lets keep defending the fucktard.

Quote:
And the 20% oxygen thing is bullshit. 5000 years ago the Brazilian rain forest did not exist. It was woodland with lush grass lands interspersed. The formation of the Sahara Desert is the reason the Amazon exists. So you can't tell me that over 5000 years ago humans were choking to breathe because the Amazon didn't exist.

I'm not sure where you pulled that from, but the rainforest has existed for 10s of millions of years. Current estimate is 55 million. I mean shit, Humans have lived in the Amazon for 13,000 years. So you literally pulled that out of your ass.

Quote:
Riiiight. None of this stuff happened until now. It's ALLLLL buddy's fault.
No, it's been run by donkeys for generations. This guy is just making it worse.

Quote:
Yeah, I forgot to post the part about where Western nations, particularly Mitterand in France, had suggested that Brazil only be semi-autonomous with the Amazon being "fostered" by the Western powers. Yep, that's no colonialism. And you'll note it ONLY includes Western powers, not any of the other Amazonian nations.
If a conglomerate of nations are formed to protect the Amazon, it must include the nations that it currently resides in.

Quote:
So you're saying that Brazil is no better than the rest of the world and yet you expect them to be better than that? Or are you simply happy to ignore the fact that pretty much all of the damage is the result of PREVIOUS govts and illegal activities. Are you coming down with PDS syndrome now too?
I wish I knew where you got your information. You have zero fucking idea about anything. Quite honestly I'd be shocked if anything you've ever posted on this forum can't be immediately proven false. The amount of deforestation increased 39% vs the previous year under a different government. He has actively said he wants to start cutting down more of the rainforest. But when it starts being cut down more, it's illegal activity? But hey maybe your right, which I'm sure was made way better when he promised to cut back on punishments for illegal deforestation right?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/exclusive-bra ... 02196.html


Quote:
When lumbering is done properly and legally in Brazil they are only allowed to cut so many trees per acre and only so many of any single type of tree per acre. That's sustainable. And yet you want to bitch about that? You are being an eco-colonialist.

Except that isn't what Bolsonaro wants. He wants clear cut so that cattle can be raised. You're talking about policies that were in place when the country wasn't run by this jackoff.

Also, if you're only taking so many of any single type of tree per acre, there can be up to 750 different species of tree in any given acre of the Amazon.

It's also funny you keep banging your drum about colonialism while completely ignoring the indigenous populations that are being uprooted because of this bullshit. But they don't matter right? Only the poor ranch and mine owners do? These people have lived isolated for centuries. But yeah, totally not colonialism to fuck their lives up right? Only colonialism to expect a government to not wholesale destroy a fundamental aspect of the worlds atmosphere maintenance for a fucking dollar.

Open a fucking book for fucks sake.


Last edited by Tricks on Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:36 pm
 


Martin15 wrote:
So, how much oxygen is in the air right now ?

And how many thousands of years would it take to reduce the amount from 20%
to the unscientific 15% gagging level ?

Hey look, someone else who has never learned a fucking thing in his life.

https://sciencing.com/minimum-oxygen-co ... 15546.html

Quote:
Serious side effects can occur if the oxygen levels drop outside the safe zone. When oxygen concentrations drop from 19.5 to 16 percent, and you engage in physical activity, your cells fail to receive the oxygen needed to function correctly. Mental functions become impaired and respiration intermittent at oxygen concentrations that drop from 10 to 14 percent; at these levels with any amount of physical activity, the body becomes exhausted.


https://sms.asu.edu/sites/default/files ... pheres.pdf

Quote:
15–19 Impaired thinking and attention. Increased pulse and
breathing rate. Reduced coordination. Decreased
ability to work strenuously. Reduced physical and
intellectual performance without awareness.
12–15 Poor judgment. Faulty coordination. Abnormal fatigue
upon exertion. Emotional upset.


"Unscientific". You people wouldn't know science if it kicked you in the nuts.

If all the surface plant life on the planet were wiped out it would take a huge amount of time for it to be noticed. But we aren't dealing with one issue anymore. Phytoplankton are arguably the largest producers of oxygen on the planet. And climate change threatens their existence as well. The rising acidity of the oceans and the increase in heat of the waters can have detrimental effects on phytoplankton levels. And you know what doesn't help? Fucking cutting down a giant carbon sink, and then releasing all the carbon it's been storing for millions of years.

So would it take a huge amount of time? Yes, absolutely. But this is the only planet we've got. And I'd rather not do shit that fucks it up, even if it's on a massive timeline, because I'm not a selfish twat.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:51 pm
 


Watts has an interesting point:

Quote:
If there is a fire problem in the Amazon, it’s actually in Bolivia, specifically Santa Cruz state. Why don’t we hear the condemnation of Bolivia?


It's explained here:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/24/ ... he-amazon/

But if that's correct then he asks a good question - why are we being called upon to do this Image concerning the guy that took over Brazil a half a year ago.

Why isn't the left's pet media calling for you to take your torches and pitch forks down to Boliva?


Last edited by N_Fiddledog on Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:55 am
 


N_Fiddledog wrote:
why are we being called upon to do this Image concerning the guy that took over Brazil a half a year ago.



Because Brazil dared to have an election.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:56 am
 


N_Fiddledog wrote:
Watts has an interesting point:

Quote:
If there is a fire problem in the Amazon, it’s actually in Bolivia, specifically Santa Cruz state. Why don’t we hear the condemnation of Bolivia?


Uhhh yeah. If you look at a fire map from the last 48 hours Bolivia doesn't own the problem. By far and away the vast majority of fires are occurring in the Brazilian area of the Amazon.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:34 am
 


This is not just about Brazil or Bolsonaro. It's a long-term problem. However, one positive aspect of the coverage is that Bolsonaro has learned that the rest of the world cares a lot about it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:13 am
 


The Right wants us to believe that the fact that Amazon fires have almost doubled since Bolsonaro took power has nothing to do with the fact he’s long advocated for expansion of slash-and-burn and has the nickname “Captain Chainsaw”.

The right also wants us to believe it’s just a “coincidence” that he fired the respected non-partisan head of the agency that tracks deforestation and is spreading absurd rumours that environmentalists are the ones starting the fires just to make him look bad.

Also a total coincidence is that since Bolsonaro took office, armed gangs have been running indigenous tribes off their land and setting up illegal mining and logging operations that the government somehow conveniently just doesn’t seem able to stop. The gangs recently murdered a tribal leader who has been outspoken on the topic and conveniently Bolsonaro again casts doubt on who’s responsible. Apparently the Right wants us to believe a total coincidence that Bolsonaro has called for indigenous people to be assimilated and relocated so the rainforest can be exploited.

The Right loves hateful authoritarians: Putin, Duterte, Bolsonaro, Orban, Erdogan. So expect them to keep apologizing and keep lying to defend these deplorable corrupt cocksuckers at any cost.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:46 am
 


Yup. Burn the world down to own the libs. That'll teach em.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:12 pm
 


Sunnyways wrote:
This is not just about Brazil or Bolsonaro. It's a long-term problem. However, one positive aspect of the coverage is that Bolsonaro has learned that the rest of the world cares a lot about it.



No they don't.

The leftists only want to virtue signal about it, and whine and bitch only now
because Bolsano is in power.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:25 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
N_Fiddledog wrote:
Watts has an interesting point:

Quote:
If there is a fire problem in the Amazon, it’s actually in Bolivia, specifically Santa Cruz state. Why don’t we hear the condemnation of Bolivia?


Uhhh yeah. If you look at a fire map from the last 48 hours Bolivia doesn't own the problem. By far and away the vast majority of fires are occurring in the Brazilian area of the Amazon.



Here's what the guy making the Bolivia comment said on August 24.

Quote:
This is a post in reply to Nick Stokes criticism of using the entire Amazon for fire statistics, rather than just using the state of Amazonas.

[clip]

The state of Amazonas has only 9.8% of total fires in the entire region. The fire per 1000 km2 is second lowest. This ratio of area to fires is about 40% of the ratio for the entire Amazon region. The number of fires is only 4th highest.

Mato Grosso state has the highest number of fires, both as % and as an actual number. It has the 5th highest fires/1000 km2. Yet Nick specifically criticized using this state. Even though it borders on Amazonas State.

If there is a fire problem in the Amazon, it’s actually in Bolivia, specifically Santa Cruz state. Why don’t we hear the condemnation of Bolivia?

But, lets take out Peru and Bolivia and Mato Grosso. Amazonas still has only about 23% of the remaining fires, nearly tied with Rondonia.


Here are some maps of the region including a fire map and starting with the state of Mato Grosso, where the highest percentage of fires and amount by region are situated.


Attachments:
Mato Grosso.jpg
Mato Grosso.jpg [ 10.54 KiB | Viewed 56 times ]
Mato Grosso as state.jpg
Mato Grosso as state.jpg [ 13.41 KiB | Viewed 56 times ]
Amazon River.JPG
Amazon River.JPG [ 17.59 KiB | Viewed 61 times ]
Amazon fires.png
Amazon fires.png [ 165.77 KiB | Viewed 61 times ]
The Amazon.jpg
The Amazon.jpg [ 7.67 KiB | Viewed 61 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:23 pm
 


And here's another thing - this is not a record fire year for the Amazon:

https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni

Quote:
If you actually read the article that started the fervor, you’ll notice that there is context provided to the photos:

Image


https://www.spartareport.com/2019/08/wh ... est-fires/

The fake news guys appear to have some of you convinced there are record fires in the Amazon this year and they are caused by some leader they call "far right" who took power about a half a year ago.

I'm calling BS on both allegations.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:30 pm
 


Oh and Tricks concerning this insinuation that we need to do something about this new wave of "far right" fire-starting in Brazil's section of the Amazon or there will be no more oxygen, because science - BULLSHIT Image


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:35 pm
 


Martin15 wrote:
Sunnyways wrote:
This is not just about Brazil or Bolsonaro. It's a long-term problem. However, one positive aspect of the coverage is that Bolsonaro has learned that the rest of the world cares a lot about it.



No they don't.

The leftists only want to virtue signal about it, and whine and bitch only now
because Bolsano is in power.


Not true. What sort of desolate wasteland do you want to hand on to the next generation? BTW give me so called virtue signalling over vice signalling any day.


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