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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:38 pm
 


The catastrophic loss of another fifth of Brazil’s rainforest could happen within one generation. It’s happened before. It’s happening now.

Quote:
THE RIVER BASIN at the center of Latin America called the Amazon is roughly the size of Australia. Created at the beginning of the world by a smashing of tectonic plates, it was the cradle of inland seas and continental lakes. For the last several million years, it has been blanketed by a teeming tropical biome of 400 billion trees and vegetation so dense and heavy with water, it exhales a fifth of Earth’s oxygen, stores centuries of carbon, and deflects and consumes an unknown but significant amount of solar heat. Twenty percent of the world’s fresh water cycles through its rivers, plants, soils, and air. This moisture fuels and regulates multiple planet-scale systems, including the production of “rivers in the air” by evapotranspiration, a ceaseless churning flux in which the forest breathes its water into great hemispheric conveyer belts that carry it as far as the breadbaskets of Argentina and the American Midwest, where it is released as rain.

In the last half-century, about one-fifth of this forest, or some 300,000 square miles, has been cut and burned in Brazil, whose borders contain almost two-thirds of the Amazon basin. This is an area larger than Texas, the U.S. state that Brazil’s denuded lands most resemble, with their post-forest landscapes of silent sunbaked pasture, bean fields, and evangelical churches. This epochal deforestation — matched by harder to quantify but similar levels of forest degradation and fragmentation — has caused measurable disruptions to regional climates and rainfall. It has set loose so much stored carbon that it has negated the forest’s benefit as a carbon sink, the world’s largest after the oceans. Scientists warn that losing another fifth of Brazil’s rainforest will trigger the feedback loop known as dieback, in which the forest begins to dry out and burn in a cascading system collapse, beyond the reach of any subsequent human intervention or regret. This would release a doomsday bomb of stored carbon, disappear the cloud vapor that consumes the sun’s radiation before it can be absorbed as heat, and shrivel the rivers in the basin and in the sky.

The catastrophic loss of another fifth of Brazil’s rainforest could happen within one generation. It’s happened before. It’s happening now.


https://theintercept.com/2019/07/06/brazil-amazon-rainforest-indigenous-conservation-agribusiness-ranching/


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:57 pm
 


Bolsonaro is burning the rainforest.

Tricks wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
Tricks wrote:
Which they haven't. This guy is just as violent as the last ones. He's said Pinochet didn't kill enough people. That he wants a civil war. It seems like both sides are evil on this one.


I suppose we'll see.

Definitely, and I hope I'm wrong. I fear I'm not.

current-events-f59/far-right-ex-soldier-jair-bolsonaro-wins-the-brazilian-elect-t122063-15.html?hilit=Bolsonaro

I wasn't. I'm not surprised.

And just to be clear, the usual suspects have been sucking Bolsonaro's dick around here.

current-events-f59/brazil-s-tropical-trump-president-elect-says-he-will-allow-t122364.html?hilit=brazil

international-politics-f2/brazil-s-president-denounces-socialism-t122379.html?hilit=brazil


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:56 pm
 


Hang on, I'm having a little trouble following your blame game.

The article says as follows:

"In the last half-century, about one-fifth of this forest, or some 300,000 square miles, has been cut and burned in Brazil, whose borders contain almost two-thirds of the Amazon basin."

"The last half century"

But Bolsonaro took power on January 1 2019. Who was the bad guy for the other 49 1/2 years?

Well, there's this from the Washington Examiner 2018:

Quote:
The people of Brazil are rejecting a corrupt socialism that has ruined the nation’s economy. Jair Bolsonaro of the Social Liberty Party (PSL) in Brazil is a lock for president this weekend while running against a committed socialist. This is great news and shows a shift in the thinking of the people of South America.

South America has had an ugly history of socialism leading to corruption, crime and poverty. Venezuela is a great example of the failure of socialism.

Brazil’s past experiment with socialism and the Workers’ Party was a failure. Former President Luiz Inacio ‘Lula’ da Silva is jailed on corruption charges. His successor, Dilma Rousseff helped continue the economic decline of Brazil and ended up getting impeached for corruption. The Bolsonaro’s campaign against socialism and corruption is striking a note, because the Workers’ Party is corrupt. Brazilian’s are sick and tired of the empty promises of socialism and total government control over the means of production and natural resources.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... in-brazil/

So let's put our detective caps on and try to figure this out, shall we. The article tells us the desecration of the Amazonian rain forest has been happening for a half a century. Bolsonaro only took power a little over a half a year ago. Before that there were socialists in charge.

So who could the perps of this horrible environmental crime possibly be? [?] Hmmm...what a mystery.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:51 pm
 


And before that, there was a military junta, the kind Bolsanaro is probably going to turn Brazil into.

It's also worth noting that the previous governments tried to curb the illegal deforestation in spite of their corruption.

Also. The Moonie Times? Do better.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:14 pm
 


Meanwhile, as the two of you get into an ideological pissing match, the idiot animal rights activists are trying to blame it on livestock farming. :lol: :lol: That was last century's news. This century it's soybeans and cocao. And of course there's long been global demand for the beautiful hardwoods of the Amazonian rain forest which has led to a LOT of illegal deforestation.
The sad reality is, no matter what kind of govt is in charge of Brazil, trying to prevent the illegal exploitation of the Amazon is all but impossible.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:46 am
 


Tricks wrote:
Bolsonaro is burning the rainforest.

xerxes wrote:
And before that, there was a military junta, the kind Bolsanaro is probably going to turn Brazil into.



Here is the fun part...

Both of you are being lied to, and both of you are wayyyyy too leftist to swallow
anything else except the lie.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49433767

How bad were fires in the previous years?

While the number of fires in Brazil is at its highest level for almost a decade, the data suggests that Brazil - and the wider Amazon region - may have experienced more intense burning in the past.

An analysis of NASA satellite data last week indicated that the total fire activity in 2019 across the Amazon, not just Brazil, is close to the average when compared with a longer 15 year period.

Looking specifically at Brazil, figures from Cams going back to 2003 show that the total CO2 equivalent emissions, used to measure of the amount and intensity of fire activity, are at their highest since 2010.

But according to the data, emissions in Brazil were higher in the mid-2000s, as the chart below indicates.


xerxes wrote:
And before that, there was a military junta, the kind Bolsanaro is probably going to turn Brazil into.



2000's, 2003-2010, oh but it's the right wing Pinochet junta right ?

Because LULA was a ...............
and the guy before him was a socialist as well..


It's just more fake news TDS type bullshit and lies from the leftists.
Hysteria for political purposes.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:08 am
 


There's nothing fake about the amount of fires this year or the fact the Bolsonaro DGAF about the rainforest. If anything, he's like Saruman in LotR when he sees Fangorn Forest as says, "Burn in down!"

There's nothing fake about the global catastrophe that losing the Amazon will create.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:29 am
 


Quote:
Deforestation was 278% higher in July 2019 than in July 2018


Completely ignoring that part eh Martin?

Quote:
Because LULA was a ...............
and the guy before him was a socialist as well..


You're aware those guys being giant flaming piles of shit doesn't exclude this Bolsonaro from also being a giant flaming pile of shit right?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:31 am
 


Tricks wrote:
Quote:
Deforestation was 278% higher in July 2019 than in July 2018


Completely ignoring that part eh Martin?

Quote:
Because LULA was a ...............
and the guy before him was a socialist as well..


You're aware those guys being giant flaming piles of LEFT WING shit


Left wing shit, remember that.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:38 am
 


Martin15 wrote:
Tricks wrote:
Quote:
Deforestation was 278% higher in July 2019 than in July 2018


Completely ignoring that part eh Martin?

Quote:
Because LULA was a ...............
and the guy before him was a socialist as well..


You're aware those guys being giant flaming piles of LEFT WING shit


Left wing shit, remember that.

Yes Left wing shit. I'm not you Martin, I don't care what side someone is on if they're a fucking garbage human.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:51 am
 


xerxes wrote:
There's nothing fake about the amount of fires this year or the fact the Bolsonaro DGAF about the rainforest. If anything, he's like Saruman in LotR when he sees Fangorn Forest as says, "Burn in down!"

There's nothing fake about the global catastrophe that losing the Amazon will create.
Uh...yeah. The discussion about the rainforest is not only unhinged, using Biblical language to describe fairly routine events. It is also riddled with a colonialist view in which people in the developing world are presented as irresponsible and destructive, while Westerners, like the leader of France, are held up as the saviours of nature and mankind.
Look, Brazil is either a sovereign nation or it isn’t. If it is a sovereign nation, then it has every right to pursue economic growth as it sees fit. The rainforest belongs to Brazilians. A Brazilian approach that boosts economic development while keeping a close eye on the natural environment sounds like a good one. But it horrifies Western greens who are allergic to any kind of meaningful economic development. Under the guise of environmentalism they are pursuing the ugly old colonial goal of subjugating non-Western nations to their rules and diktats. And that’s far more horrifying than a few fires in the Amazon.

Leonardo DiCaprio says ‘if the Amazon goes, we the humans will go’. So Brazil is killing us all. Bolsonaro, by giving a green light to development in the rainforest, is holding a gun to mankind’s head, apparently. No wonder Macron has suggested holding an international conference on how to save the rainforest, while some greens have said we need to intervene. Westerners going overseas to rescue natural resources from the ignorant natives? Yes, that went so well in the past didn't it.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:11 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Uh...yeah. The discussion about the rainforest is not only unhinged, using Biblical language to describe fairly routine events.
Fires of this magnitude aren't routine. The Amazon doesn't function like normal forests, it doesn't deal as well with fires. Also, the deforestation is a huge concern. It supplies 20% of the oxygen on the planet. We sit at about 20% oxygen in the atmosphere. 15% is when humans start to struggle to breathe. It's also home to half the species on the planet. If you wipe it out, it would cause an ecological disaster.

Quote:
It is also riddled with a colonialist view in which people in the developing world are presented as irresponsible and destructive, while Westerners, like the leader of France, are held up as the saviours of nature and mankind.
Brazil isn't a bunch of savages running around in Loin cloths. It's just being run by a fucking donkey.

Quote:
Look, Brazil is either a sovereign nation or it isn’t. If it is a sovereign nation, then it has every right to pursue economic growth as it sees fit. The rainforest belongs to Brazilians.
The rainforest stretches like 9 countries. It doesn't belong to Brazil. They just have the biggest chunk. If it starts burning in other countries, would they have cause to call that an act of war? Cause then Brazil would have caused the burn of their country's land.

Quote:
A Brazilian approach that boosts economic development while keeping a close eye on the natural environment sounds like a good one.
You actually believe that bullshit? Holy fuck are you gullible.

You never cease to amaze me with how stupendously out of touch with reality you are.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:18 am
 


So, how much oxygen is in the air right now ?

And how many thousands of years would it take to reduce the amount from 20%
to the unscientific 15% gagging level ?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:22 am
 


Tricks wrote:
PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Uh...yeah. The discussion about the rainforest is not only unhinged, using Biblical language to describe fairly routine events.
Fires of this magnitude aren't routine.
One fire also doth not a routine make.
Tricks wrote:
The Amazon doesn't function like normal forests, it doesn't deal as well with fires. Also, the deforestation is a huge concern. It supplies 20% of the oxygen on the planet. We sit at about 20% oxygen in the atmosphere. 15% is when humans start to struggle to breathe. It's also home to half the species on the planet. If you wipe it out, it would cause an ecological disaster.
You do realize the bulk of the deforestation going on is due to illegal activities, right? And that it's not just Brazil that's affected by it, right? And the 20% oxygen thing is bullshit. 5000 years ago the Brazilian rain forest did not exist. It was woodland with lush grass lands interspersed. The formation of the Sahara Desert is the reason the Amazon exists. So you can't tell me that over 5000 years ago humans were choking to breathe because the Amazon didn't exist.

Quote:
It is also riddled with a colonialist view in which people in the developing world are presented as irresponsible and destructive, while Westerners, like the leader of France, are held up as the saviours of nature and mankind.
Tricks wrote:
Brazil isn't a bunch of savages running around in Loin cloths. It's just being run by a fucking donkey.
Riiiight. None of this stuff happened until now. It's ALLLLL buddy's fault.

Quote:
Look, Brazil is either a sovereign nation or it isn’t. If it is a sovereign nation, then it has every right to pursue economic growth as it sees fit. The rainforest belongs to Brazilians.
Tricks wrote:
The rainforest stretches like 9 countries. It doesn't belong to Brazil. They just have the biggest chunk. If it starts burning in other countries, would they have cause to call that an act of war? Cause then Brazil would have caused the burn of their country's land.
Yeah, I forgot to post the part about where Western nations, particularly Mitterand in France, had suggested that Brazil only be semi-autonomous with the Amazon being "fostered" by the Western powers. Yep, that's no colonialism. And you'll note it ONLY includes Western powers, not any of the other Amazonian nations.

Quote:
A Brazilian approach that boosts economic development while keeping a close eye on the natural environment sounds like a good one.
Tricks wrote:
You actually believe that bullshit? Holy fuck are you gullible.

You never cease to amaze me with how stupendously out of touch with reality you are.
So you're saying that Brazil is no better than the rest of the world and yet you expect them to be better than that? Or are you simply happy to ignore the fact that pretty much all of the damage is the result of PREVIOUS govts and illegal activities. Are you coming down with PDS syndrome now too?

When lumbering is done properly and legally in Brazil they are only allowed to cut so many trees per acre and only so many of any single type of tree per acre. That's sustainable. And yet you want to bitch about that? You are being an eco-colonialist.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:29 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
xerxes wrote:
There's nothing fake about the amount of fires this year or the fact the Bolsonaro DGAF about the rainforest. If anything, he's like Saruman in LotR when he sees Fangorn Forest as says, "Burn in down!"

There's nothing fake about the global catastrophe that losing the Amazon will create.
Uh...yeah. The discussion about the rainforest is not only unhinged, using Biblical language to describe fairly routine events. It is also riddled with a colonialist view in which people in the developing world are presented as irresponsible and destructive, while Westerners, like the leader of France, are held up as the saviours of nature and mankind.
Look, Brazil is either a sovereign nation or it isn’t. If it is a sovereign nation, then it has every right to pursue economic growth as it sees fit. The rainforest belongs to Brazilians. A Brazilian approach that boosts economic development while keeping a close eye on the natural environment sounds like a good one. But it horrifies Western greens who are allergic to any kind of meaningful economic development. Under the guise of environmentalism they are pursuing the ugly old colonial goal of subjugating non-Western nations to their rules and diktats. And that’s far more horrifying than a few fires in the Amazon.

Leonardo DiCaprio says ‘if the Amazon goes, we the humans will go’. So Brazil is killing us all. Bolsonaro, by giving a green light to development in the rainforest, is holding a gun to mankind’s head, apparently. No wonder Macron has suggested holding an international conference on how to save the rainforest, while some greens have said we need to intervene. Westerners going overseas to rescue natural resources from the ignorant natives? Yes, that went so well in the past didn't it.


Economic growth but at what expense? Is money worth it by ruining the world?

Here's a scenario for argument's sake. The Columbia River starts in BC and flows south through Washington State and Oregon. Millions of people rely on it for power generation and water. What if it was worth a lot of money to completely poison the river on our side of the border before it flows into the US? What if we poured every last toxin, every last heavy water molecule from the heavy water reactor in Trail, every last bit of poison in the river. Would our sovereignty matter then?


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