[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

What I'm against is advocacy organizations masquerading as disinterested observers. "Alcohol causes harm"--granted. No problem there.

"Therefore more government control is recommended." Problem.

I have no problem with you having a problem. But your argument was that this represents an increase in cancer cases, and thus their premise is false. But it was your premise that was false, because you didn't think what new cancer cases could possibly mean. Since you now seem to get it, maybe you can explain it to the slow learners here who still don't.

I was wrong about that--they were ascribing existing and past cancer cases as being attributable to alcohol, not saying there was a spike of new cases. Sorry. It wasn't malfeasance I just didn't read the article closely enough. My bad.

The point still stands on the fact that this is an advocacy organization bent on influecing major public policy positions, and they should not present as science-based. Policy remedies are essentially based on ethics, not science.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I say everything in moderation...

Sure, but when it's classed as the same hazard as asbestos, you don't breathe in moderate amounts of asbestos, do you?

Well, as I said in the part you cut out, everything is going to kill you - the air, the water, the food, etc. No reason you can't have a beer once and a while.

I don't drink very much - hell, I almost never drink, but I'd rather enjoy life and live to 75 than be miserable and live to 100.

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

I was wrong about that--they were ascribing existing and past cancer cases as being attributable to alcohol, not saying there was a spike of new cases. Sorry. It wasn't malfeasance I just didn't read the article closely enough. My bad.

I didn't think is was malfeasance, just a mistake as you say. What's funny is how many guys bought your premise and could not be swayed. Martin was wetting his pants with glee about how I was wrong once again. So funny to see the groupmind in action.

Maybe they're an advocacy group - nothing wrong with that. They themselves say what everybody has been saying for a long time - drink in moderation. Personally it's only recently that I became aware that booze is related to cancer, I didn't know that.

I wish I could enjoy drinking more. I really miss having a cold beer on a hot day - nothing is as refreshing. But I've just lost the taste for it.

[DrCaleb]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I don't drink very much - hell, I almost never drink, but I'd rather enjoy life and live to 75 than be miserable and live to 100.

"If you live to be one hundred, you've got it made. Very few people die past that age." - George Burns

"It takes only one drink to get me drunk. The trouble is, I can't remember if it's the thirteenth or the fourteenth." - George Burns

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." - George Burns

I could go on all day quoting George.

andyt andyt:

I wish I could enjoy drinking more. I really miss having a cold beer on a hot day - nothing is as refreshing. But I've just lost the taste for it.

Life would not be worth living at that point. Unless you developed a better appreciation of wine.

[andyt]

Can't stand anything except the odd glass of white wine. And life is very much worth living, it doesn't revolve around booze for me.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

I wish I could enjoy drinking more. I really miss having a cold beer on a hot day - nothing is as refreshing. But I've just lost the taste for it.

I hardly ever drink myself - despite youthful attempts at binge drinking and partying like most kids, I never developed a love for booze of any kind (wine/hard/beer). I'll have a beer if someone offers me one, but I hardly ever buy it on my own.

On a hot day, I prefer a slurpee to a cold beer - although a margarita might suffice if I had the ingredients to make one.

[andyt]

I'm going with cranberry juice and club soda these days. No added sugar, vitamins from the juice and the club soda bubbles are refreshing.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Can't stand anything except the odd glass of white wine. And life is very much worth living, it doesn't revolve around booze for me.

It doesn't revolve around alcohol for me either, but I do enjoy simple pleasures. And a cold beer after an afternoon of work on a hot day is one. When I can't enjoy the simple pleasures, it's time to start throwing dirt over me.

andyt andyt:

I'm going with cranberry juice and club soda these days. No added sugar, vitamins from the juice and the club soda bubbles are refreshing.

Straight Cranberry, with a shot of lime or bitters. I get the artificially sweetened stuff in 4l jugs now.

[andyt]

Na, that stuff I buy is apple or white grape with cranberry in it. Straight cranberry takes way too much sugar to be palatable, I'd rather sweeten it with other juice.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

[
I didn't think is was malfeasance, just a mistake as you say. What's funny is how many guys bought your premise and could not be swayed. Martin was wetting his pants with glee about how I was wrong once again. So funny to see the groupmind in action.

Maybe they're an advocacy group - nothing wrong with that. They themselves say what everybody has been saying for a long time - drink in moderation. Personally it's only recently that I became aware that booze is related to cancer, I didn't know that.

I wish I could enjoy drinking more. I really miss having a cold beer on a hot day - nothing is as refreshing. But I've just lost the taste for it.

There's nothing at all wrong with an advocacy group. As long as they are up front about it.

"Health Promotion" is a socio-political response to vice that happens to advocate a bigger role for government in regulating and influencing individual behaviour. That's fine, if that is your political leaning, but it is not the only policy response available and it does not inevitably follow from the science. The underlying assumption is that "cancer cases could be prevented by reducing alcohol consumption, therefore the government should try to reduce alcohol consumption."

To my mind the more appropriate response is "drinking can cause cancer, so we should let people know that so that they can factor that in to their own individual risk assessment."

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

Na, that stuff I buy is apple or white grape with cranberry in it. Straight cranberry takes way too much sugar to be palatable, I'd rather sweeten it with other juice.

That's the problem, other juices have too much sugar. Next to Lemons and Limes, Cranberries have next to no sugar. So sweetening it with sucralose is perfect for me.

[Jabberwalker]

Pomegranate juice is another nice one that isn't too cloying. I love the stuff.

[ShepherdsDog]

Cranberry and orange juice mixed with club soda, ginger ale or 7 UP works well as a cocktail. My grandmother always mixed up a bunch of this for Christmas, as the older kids(10+ years) were only allowed a small glass of wine with the Christmas meal

[Jabberwalker]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Cranberry and orange juice mixed with club soda, ginger ale or 7 UP works well as a cocktail. My grandmother always mixed up a bunch of this for Christmas, as the older kids(10+ years) were only allowed a small glass of wine with the Christmas meal

Sneak in small amounts of pineapple and grapefruit juice to make it "edgy".

[andyt]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

"Health Promotion" is a socio-political response to vice that happens to advocate a bigger role for government in regulating and influencing individual behaviour. That's fine, if that is your political leaning, but it is not the only policy response available and it does not inevitably follow from the science. The underlying assumption is that "cancer cases could be prevented by reducing alcohol consumption, therefore the government should try to reduce alcohol consumption."

To my mind the more appropriate response is "drinking can cause cancer, so we should let people know that so that they can factor that in to their own individual risk assessment."

Take a look at tobacco. The govt has done exactly what you suggest. They also raised taxes and reduced promotion of the product. Would you support lower taxes and cig advertising? All of these measures worked with tobacco, and are working with alcohol - ie less drinking. So I'm solidly on board with the approach.