[PluggyRug]

Proculation wrote:

I wonder what will happen with the Volt if GM goes bankrupt.

There will be a voltage drop.

[Axeman]

herbie wrote:

Well if you want to call POS, compare any Japanese car from the same era with those Pacers, Gremlins and Javelins. AMC managed to survive and supply something different for a fair while until their misadventure with Renault killed them dead. The Japanese ones turned into rust-flakes long before Disco even died....

You're absolutely correct. So what changed things? The answer is PROTECTIONISM. North American attempts to keep Japanese cars out worked just like an agricultural quota or OPEC. Prices shot up and Toyota, Datsun and Honda made profits FAR in excess of their wildest wet dreams. That profitability allowed them to redesign, reinvest and reposition their brands. Had we just allowed their early 70s shitboxes into the country instead of throwing up protectionist barriers, they might not be kicking the shit out of the Big 3 today. We have only ourselves to blame.

[herbie]

Quote:

We have only ourselves to blame

That's what the article is saying. We bought all those F150s around here. Every immigrant kid in Vancouver bought a Camaro or TansAm. So the Big3 failed to produce anything else!

But when I had a hobby farm and had a 24ft travel trailer, Toyota didn't build a product for me. When I had the kids and a small business Dodge made the best mini-van. When I bought my last car, Saturn made the Vue small, roomy, and different.
Now what? I won't be buying another full size pickup. The Caravans are ugly as shit. Saturn's just another copycat. I needed a work vehicle last summer and Jeep's ditched the Cherokee (perfect model for the job)....
Build the right vehicle and people will buy it.
(Or in GM's case: Build the ChevyRight, the Pontiac RightAway, the Buick RightThing, the GMC Rightmachine, the Saturn Rightway and a loaded Cadillac RightOn and one with an extra airbag called the Saab 9R for $20K more,
and enough people will buy it to make sure all NINE DIVISIONs and NINE Assembly plants go tits up!

[Bibbi]

I think that the big 3 were too slow on the up-take in terms of what consumers wanted. We were pissed off on how fast GM and Chrysler cars rusted in 3 years at one point. We bought Japanese cars because they lasted longer. My mother had at 70 Mazda for almost 20 years without a spec of rust in Canada. I had a 626 Mazda that lasted 8 years without any large maintenance costs beyond $200 or any rust.

The Volkswagen Beetle made a killing in the 70's because of low gas mileage and a price of $2,000 or less. There was no competition from the big 3 at the time. It took a very long time before GM could even master how to make a reliable automatic transmission on a small car.

Then there was the period where most GM and the foreign manufacturers made small cars. The difference however was that the base GM car included the steering wheel and everything else seemed to be extra. Toyota and the others included all the extras in a better looking, more reliable car at a lower price.

Part of the reason GM got into pick-up trucks and SUVs is that a lot of people got into RVs and travel trailers and they needed good power to tow them. Since they were not pulling travel trailers constantly, they wanted something that drove and looked like a fancy car when they were NOT pulling a trailer. Enter the SUV. It was also promoted as safe under less than ideal conditions because it was more like a truck than a car. What the big 3 did not recognize is that the gas mileage on these trucks/SUVs was too low and they were too slow on improving the situation.
Then with cross-overs they tried to improve the gas mileage but reduced the towing power and therefore their usefullness to a lot of consumers.

The bottom line is that now the big 3 do not have a reliable SUV with good gas mileage and the towing power for a travel trailer for a family of 4 (2 kids). Minivans can barely pull a tent trailer or a boat trailer. Many young families want a small reliable car to take one spouse a longer distance to work, and a larger car to take the other spouse a shorter distance to work, but also to serve as the car to pack up for extensive vacations.

[stemmer]

Axeman wrote:

Consumers are only to blame in that they've supported these shitty companies for too long. Had consumers demanded better quality, safer and more environmentally friendly vehicles 30 years ago, this may have been a competitive industry. Consumers are to blame for their passive loyalty to domestic shitboxes.

30 years ago the Big Three were far better then anything Datsun, Honda or Toyota had to offer... Honda Civics, Toyota Corollas & Datsun 510 & B210 were rusting hulks after 5 years in NA...

AND NO consumers are not to blame for the demise of the Big Three... Liberal trade policies by North American governments are to blame for they allowed our shores to become the dumping ground from nations that do not hold the human life in the same esteem as North American society does...

It irks me Toyota and others traffic in slave labour from Burma and China to manufacture parts for car parts destined to North America...

Another problem with the Big Three are they are too generous to employees. Look what at an employee at GM, Ford or Mopar earn and their healthcare coverage & benefits... Now compare that to Hyundai or Toyota...

Too many people here buy into the myth that imports are better then domestics... AND then use the argument Toyota is more domestic then a Dodge... So which is it, domestic or import????? Make up your mind...

[mtbr]

it's the fault of Maple Leafs fans who drive Toyotas.

[stemmer]

The only person who played for the Leafs who had any class was Eddie Belfour

http://www.belfour.com/index.php?option ... 4&Itemid=2
http://www.carmancustom.com/

No rice in his garage....

[mtbr]

do they grow rice in Cambridge Ontario?

[stemmer]

Do Toyota owners really know quality or are they easy pry for marketing...???

[poquas]

Our only hope for this crap to end is that Stemmer get rear ended while racing down the highway in his Pinto.

[stemmer]

Ouch... While most teenage boys would haggle over who's hotter Ginger or May-Ann, I'm betting you had your eye on Mrs Howell? Now what did Thurston Howell III call her, Luvy? In one of the funnier episodes of Gilligan Island Thurston quipped ""No one can pull the wool over my eyes. Cashmere maybe, but wool, never."

Those believing Toyota is superior to GM or Ford or Mopar have had the cashmere pulled over their lookers.... and are blinded by rice...

[mtbr]

poquas wrote:

Our only hope for this crap to end is that Stemmer get rear ended while racing down the highway in his Pinto.

or while driving down the highway his airbags deploy.
http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/gm/ ... impala.htm



or even better they don't deploy and he goes through the windshield
http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/rec ... 75-recall/