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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:27 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
How about you save up, borrow and spend 1.5 million to open your own franchise and then have people tell you how much money you should make.


Isn't that exactly what you are telling the people that work there? That they should be happy they have a job, and don't complain when they have to work 2 or 3 jobs to pay rent?


They should be paid the market value for their work, just as the owners paid market value for their franchise.

Pouring coffee isn't a $15/hour job nor should it be looked at as a permanent career.

Further, the majority of the people earning this wage are students and living at home.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:45 pm
 


Coach85 Coach85:
And?

How about you save up, borrow and spend 1.5 million to open your own franchise and then have people tell you how much money you should make.


I doubt Tim Horton's heirs were ever short of cash, not after the name and company got sold for multiple-millions into the Wendy's empire. And there's nothing wrong with that at all either. What's wrong is someone who doesn't have to because they're already more than well-off to survive and thrive cruelly doing what they can to gyp as much spare change out of the people that work for them.

I look at today's capitalism as being almost exactly like the last minutes of the Titanic. As the third- and fourth-class passengers were trapped below decks where they'd been locked so their "betters" could get the best seats on the lifeboats first there were those among the crew who heard their pleading to be let free. Instead of doing anything like that though all modern capitalism does is slap another couple of padlocks onto the gates to guarantee anyone unlucky enough to be on the wrong side of the winners/losers divide surely gets to drown.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:07 pm
 


Coach85 Coach85:
They should be paid the market value for their work, just as the owners paid market value for their franchise.


When they can't earn a living at it, then the market price is too low.

Coach85 Coach85:
Pouring coffee isn't a $15/hour job nor should it be looked at as a permanent career.


I knew a lady who was making the baked goods in the back, when they still did that. It was a good paying job. Many adults have to take those jobs, because it's all they can get. They are trapped in the world where that's the only job they've ever had, and the only one they can get.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... -paycheque


Coach85 Coach85:
Further, the majority of the people earning this wage are students and living at home.


Untrue. Waiters, waitresses, bartenders, many professions are minimum wage, and used to be respectable professions for adults. But they don't pay enough anymore, so they are relegated to being 'entry level'. Back to the vicious circle.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:02 pm
 


$1:
Further, the majority of the people earning this wage are students and living at home.

So they won't need to mooch car payments and tuition fees from you so much. So count your blessings.

60,000 fewer shitty jobs? And you see a problem with that?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:32 pm
 


If you're a refugee it's a free ride. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:45 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
They should be paid the market value for their work, just as the owners paid market value for their franchise.


When they can't earn a living at it, then the market price is too low.


That's why entry-level jobs are called "entry-level". It's not a career.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Untrue. Waiters, waitresses, bartenders, many professions are minimum wage, and used to be respectable professions for adults. But they don't pay enough anymore, so they are relegated to being 'entry level'. Back to the vicious circle.


You're being disingenuous.

Those professions all have a lower min-wage but tips are part of the pay structure which equals to far above minimum wage. We have a friend that works at the Keg and does very well for himself as a waiter.

50.2% of people earning minimum wage are 15-19 years old. Add to that, kids often stay at home much further beyond 19 so when you run the age up to 24-25, you're well beyond the majority.

http://www.macleans.ca/economy/money-ec ... e-numbers/


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:54 pm
 


Coach85 Coach85:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
They should be paid the market value for their work, just as the owners paid market value for their franchise.


When they can't earn a living at it, then the market price is too low.


That's why entry-level jobs are called "entry-level". It's not a career.


They used to be. That's my point. You could earn a good living as a waitress, raise kids, pay the rent. Now you can't, and 'only for young adults' is the excuse not to pay living wages for them anymore.

Coach85 Coach85:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Untrue. Waiters, waitresses, bartenders, many professions are minimum wage, and used to be respectable professions for adults. But they don't pay enough anymore, so they are relegated to being 'entry level'. Back to the vicious circle.


You're being disingenuous.

Those professions all have a lower min-wage but tips are part of the pay structure which equals to far above minimum wage. We have a friend that works at the Keg and does very well for himself as a waiter.

50.2% of people earning minimum wage are 15-19 years old. Add to that, kids often stay at home much further beyond 19 so when you run the age up to 24-25, you're well beyond the majority./


And they stay at home, because they can't afford to move out.

$1:
According to financial consultant at Investors Group, Glen Melnyk, if we broke down these numbers into total debt servicing (TDS) it would look like this:

1992: TDS 15.1 per cent
2007: TDS 19.7 per cent
2016: TDS 25 per cent

That means 25 years ago, 15.1 per cent of your available income went towards your mortgage, taxes and total household debt. Ten years ago that number jumped to just around 20 per cent. Last year 25 per cent of your income went towards your home and other monthly financial obligations.


https://globalnews.ca/news/3230146/numb ... r-parents/

It's not a theory, it's reality.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:03 pm
 


Wow! So if I made $30 an hour only $1650 a month would go to home and other monthly obligations?

If I got TWO minimum wage jobs I could afford a home in say Boston Bar or Fort Fraser!!! XD


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:08 pm
 


WhiltI am supportive of an increase in the minimum wage, I can’t really say I’m a fan of the way it was done in Ontario, where the increase was announced only 6 months in advance and is a 20% raise from the current, with an additional 7% raise promised for next year. I don’t really think that much of an increase in such a short time is fair to small businesses.

The Liberals might think the timing is good politics - and it’s true that it’s impossible to take the politics out of government - but something this impactful shouldn’t be so heavily influenced by political motives.

Anyway on the macro level I don’t think the economy is going to be much affected by this especially after the first few quarters once this is “old news” but on the micro level some people are definitely going to feel it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:16 pm
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Coach85 Coach85:
Too much, too soon.


There are people working 60 hour weeks who can't afford rent, or are functionally homeless. That is just wrong.

Too little, too late. We never should have gotten to this place.



I agree in principal however; if you want a degree in Lesbian Dance Theory, you get what you signed up for.. there is no equality of outcomes here.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:48 pm
 


BeaverFever BeaverFever:
WhiltI am supportive of an increase in the minimum wage, I can’t really say I’m a fan of the way it was done in Ontario, where the increase was announced only 6 months in advance and is a 20% raise from the current, with an additional 7% raise promised for next year. I don’t really think that much of an increase in such a short time is fair to small businesses.

The Liberals might think the timing is good politics - and it’s true that it’s impossible to take the politics out of government - but something this impactful shouldn’t be so heavily influenced by political motives.

Anyway on the macro level I don’t think the economy is going to be much affected by this especially after the first few quarters once this is “old news” but on the micro level some people are definitely going to feel it.

Yeah that's too much of a shock to the system. Should've been dragged out in smaller steps over at least another year.
But politics is electioneering...

They didn't raise it for a decade here, then tried bullshit of even lower 'student wages', then when they finally increased it added a lower rate for service workers.
As an employer I can't say I didn't take advantage of those whenever I could, but it wouldn't have hurt me at all if otherwise.
Can't say I kept my mouth shut at Chamber of Commerce meetings where I listened to endless whining spew from the other fuckers there either. Every fucking one was skimming a slice of their employees tips and even used it to pay the clerk in their Beer Store $2 less.
On the other hand look at the news today. WTF is the whining about Ontario Liberals? Fucking PUSSIES haven't even got paid coffee breaks in the Labour Code. It's not 1930 anymore! Paid breaks, 3 weeks vacation after TWO years, Nov 11th and Dec 26 are STATS. If your business plan don't work with that, throw it out and look for another business.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:37 am
 


Coach85 Coach85:
Pouring coffee isn't a $15/hour job nor should it be looked at as a permanent career.

Further, the majority of the people earning this wage are students and living at home.


Not anymore.
The idea that Mickey Dees is a career seems to have infected Canada as well.




DrCaleb DrCaleb:
When they can't earn a living at it, then the market price is too low.



Gov't forcing the market price isn't the solution.

The market price is also influenced by the availability of labour.
As long as Timmies are allowed to import TFWs, the situation of
Canadians will not improve.

'They' could earn a living when they weren't forced to compete
with millions of 3rd worlders who think a Timmies job is absolute heaven.



Thanos Thanos:
Then again.......



So the company has decided they can't afford the EXTRA benefits they were
paying out in lieu of a higher wage, now that the minimum wage has gone up.

This is the real problem, people thinking the EXTRAS were automatic.

And of course taking away the FREE EXTRAS now amounts to punishment.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:09 am
 


Too bad that the employees who might have needed those "extras" to make ends meet now have to scramble, eh. :|


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:10 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
Too bad that the employees who might have needed those "extras" to make ends meet now have to scramble, eh. :|


They can thank the government.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:45 am
 


martin14 martin14:
Thanos Thanos:
Too bad that the employees who might have needed those "extras" to make ends meet now have to scramble, eh. :|


They can thank the government.


But. . . wait, I thought they could thanks the TFWs for driving the wage down? ;)

martin14 martin14:
The market price is also influenced by the availability of labour.
As long as Timmies are allowed to import TFWs, the situation of
Canadians will not improve.

'They' could earn a living when they weren't forced to compete
with millions of 3rd worlders who think a Timmies job is absolute heaven.


I quite agree. TFWs were meant to fill jobs that locals didn't want.

But the TFWs don't come here randomly and take people's jobs for cheap, now do they? Businesses have come to rely on them to keep wages low and make sure they can still afford that cottage in Northern Ontario.

My favourite drive through chick got replaced by TFWs last year. Since then, I can't reliably get an XL - 3&3. About 25% of the time, its a 2&2, or a L instead of an XL, or a coffee instead of a steeped tea. And they have no sense of ha-ha when I order a Big Mac, or Vodka Martini (2 olives).


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