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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:54 am
 


DrCaleb DrCaleb:
uwish uwish:
your a dolt, you are pointing out the 0.1% of the situations then claiming we should make policy out of the outliers. You make policy for the 90 to 95% not the <5%.


"you're".

And the .1% are the ones we are talking about. 60,000 jobs in 30 million population is .002%.


So the 99.99% are now paying more to help support the 0.002% which the majority are 15-25-year-olds still living at home/going to school.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:59 am
 


Another take on this subject...

I have a close friend that owns a business in Peterborough. Small independent coffee/bake shop.

His more experienced team members are paid about $13.50/hour and his supervisors or key holders anywhere between $14-$15/hour. New hires were started at min wage and worked their way up to their current pay level.

Now, those who come off the street with no experience and perhaps their first job are earning $14 an hour.

How do those other employees feel about that? Do they all need to be upped 23% to accommodate?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:14 am
 


Coach85 Coach85:
DrCaleb DrCaleb:
uwish uwish:
your a dolt, you are pointing out the 0.1% of the situations then claiming we should make policy out of the outliers. You make policy for the 90 to 95% not the <5%.


"you're".

And the .1% are the ones we are talking about. 60,000 jobs in 30 million population is .002%.


So the 99.99% are now paying more to help support the 0.002% which the majority are 15-25-year-olds still living at home/going to school.


Newsflash: that's how society works. We all pay tax, so the .001% of homes that burn down have fire coverage when they do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:24 am
 


If you can't afford to pay your staff a living wage, you don't have a viable business. Business owners were saying the same thing 100 years ago when a bunch of proggies told them they couldn't make 10-year old work 14 hours of labour a day anymore.

Fact is, though, that with machines, robots and AI onboarding so quickly, there's going to be a lot of jobs going out the window. Most manual labour, for sure, but also drivers. After that accountants, engineers, surgeons. Time to start looking at minimum guaranteed income for all, if you ask me, otherwise we'll be looking at an unemployment bomb.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:32 am
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
If you can't afford to pay your staff a living wage, you don't have a viable business.


Pull your head out of your ass and recognize that not every job is meant to provide a 'living wage'.

Kids living at home or going to college don't need a living wage, they just need some pocket money.

Retired people might need to supplement their retirement income.

Someone who's made poor financial choices may need an extra job to pay for gas or groceries.

In short there's an entire segment of jobs that simply don't exist to provide people with a 'living wage' and if you try to force them to pay this kind of wage then the jobs will cease to exist and you'll end up fucking a bunch of people out of their jobs...which is EXACTLY what happened.

But since the fucking idea failed you want MORE of it. FFS, I thought you were smarter than this than to put a political agenda ahead of not just reality but ahead of the interests of the people you supposedly want to help.

Right here we now have 60,000 people who aren't making diddly-fuck because this ill-considered minimum wage increase has shut them out of the job market.

Tell me: how in FUCK does this increase help those 60,000 people pay for food and housing in the dead of winter? :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:47 am
 


Coach85 Coach85:
Another take on this subject...

I have a close friend that owns a business in Peterborough. Small independent coffee/bake shop.

His more experienced team members are paid about $13.50/hour and his supervisors or key holders anywhere between $14-$15/hour. New hires were started at min wage and worked their way up to their current pay level.

Now, those who come off the street with no experience and perhaps their first job are earning $14 an hour.

How do those other employees feel about that? Do they all need to be upped 23% to accommodate?


I imagine your guy will:

A) Stop all new hires.
B) Have to fight off requests from current employees for raises.
Balance that with raising his prices.
Funny, the end result of raising his prices, and his wages, will be net benefit of zero.

C) Be much more careful with hiring, because the revolving door will cost more.
D) Cut back on any extra benefits he was maybe offering.




DrCaleb DrCaleb:
Actually, the single mother


Should have made better choices.


$1:
or some other occupation that means they don't have to work 2 jobs just to pay the outrageous rents charged nowadays.


They can live 10 to a house like the TFWs.

$1:
An increase to minimum wage only starts them in that direction.


No, it doesn't. It closes the door even further.

Because everyone else will raise prices and wages and we all end up back at the same point.
Except we will be even more uncompetitive outside Canada.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:56 am
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Pull your head out of your ass and recognize that not every job is meant to provide a 'living wage'.

Kids living at home or going to college don't need a living wage, they just need some pocket money.

Retired people might need to supplement their retirement income.

Someone who's made poor financial choices may need an extra job to pay for gas or groceries.

In short there's an entire segment of jobs that simply don't exist to provide people with a 'living wage' and if you try to force them to pay this kind of wage then the jobs will cease to exist and you'll end up fucking a bunch of people out of their jobs...which is EXACTLY what happened.

But since the fucking idea failed you want MORE of it. FFS, I thought you were smarter than this than to put a political agenda ahead of not just reality but ahead of the interests of the people you supposedly want to help.

Right here we now have 60,000 people who aren't making diddly-fuck because this ill-considered minimum wage increase has shut them out of the job market.

Tell me: how in FUCK does this increase help those 60,000 people pay for food and housing in the dead of winter? :roll:


You are making the exact same arguments that have been made, over and over again, by business since the advent of workers rights. The government should get out of the way and let business operate. Let the invisible hand do tis work. They claimed that laws against child labour would put companies out of business--and they probably did put some out of business. They claimed that limiting hours of work would put companies out of business. They claimed that onerous occupational safety regulations would put them out of business. They claimed a minimum wage would put them out of business.

And yet today, companies have more power than they have ever had. They have basically co-opted democracy and run the whole show. They have demanded--and gotten--more tax cuts, more deregulation and impunity from prosecution when they are caught for massive financial fraud. While the population rants and raves at the political puppets in place, corporate interests steadily and oh-so-efficiently transfer more and more wealth and power from the workers to themselves.

T


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:59 am
 


$1:
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.

"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"

"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."

"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:49 am
 


$1:
That’s what research by Ontario’s Financial Accountability Office (FAO) predicts will happen, too. Right now, around 60 per cent of those working for the minimum wage in the province are teens and adults under the age of 25, FAO said in a recent assessment of planned pay hikes. With a $15 hourly pay floor, though, those aged 25 and older would make up the majority of the minimum-wage workforce, implying that younger workers might face a dearth of job opportunities.


https://globalnews.ca/news/3943682/mini ... m=Facebook


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:32 pm
 


$1:
Right now, around 60 per cent of those working for the minimum wage in the province are teens and adults under the age of 25

WTF do you keep repeating that for? You seem to think that's somehow significant. Is under 25 the new "black" in your employer discrimination handbook?
Almost ALL the employees I ever hired were 25 or under. And had to pay $15 to get ones even trainable back in 2010, $10 and more to get a girl for the front desk worthwhile.
And when I got an app from someone who'd done 2 years at McD's I didn't look at it as someone I could pay shit to and would stay, like most other employers I saw it as someone who'd learned the ropes, could handle shit from coworkers and the public and they went to the top of the list.
You get what you pay for. And you naysayers completely fail to understand a higher wage will attract a better pool of employees.

I for one would pay $1 more to NOT have to put up with the shit
Sollee no bless, onee duk mit. No bless mit wi speshuh at KFC
Walk into a Timmies that doesn't run like a Manchurian Fire Drill of 35 staff, your double double, sausage biscuit and Maple dip turns into an Ice cap, empty biscuit and half cooked donut at the end of the line.
Have to tell the server to bring ketchup, or chopsticks, or refill coffee cup. Get up and go poke her to get her eyes off the cell phone and bring the bill.
The sales kid who tells you the purple 13" Celeron laptop is "really good" because it's an HP brand and tomorrow he'll be selling washing machines...
The trainee grocery teller all alone on a Friday night shift who doesn't know how to make a correction and when she buzzes for a manager hiding in the office, he won't come because he thinks there's a big lineup and he might have to open another till and actually do work....


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:33 pm
 


Zipperfish Zipperfish:
You are making the exact same arguments that have been made, over and over again, by business since the advent of workers rights. The government should get out of the way and let business operate. Let the invisible hand do tis work. They claimed that laws against child labour would put companies out of business--and they probably did put some out of business. They claimed that limiting hours of work would put companies out of business. They claimed that onerous occupational safety regulations would put them out of business. They claimed a minimum wage would put them out of business.

And yet today, companies have more power than they have ever had. They have basically co-opted democracy and run the whole show. They have demanded--and gotten--more tax cuts, more deregulation and impunity from prosecution when they are caught for massive financial fraud. While the population rants and raves at the political puppets in place, corporate interests steadily and oh-so-efficiently transfer more and more wealth and power from the workers to themselves.

T


The undeniable fact here is that 60,000 people are now out of work as a direct result of this mandated wage increase.

And if you want a government where your anti-business screed can be indulged then move to Venezuela. They have mandated minimum wages and they shit all over those companies and corporations that you so hate and loathe.

You'd love it there. It's a worker's paradise! When are you moving?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:47 pm
 


herbie herbie:
WTF do you keep repeating that for? You seem to think that's somehow significant. Is under 25 the new "black" in your employer discrimination handbook?
Almost ALL the employees I ever hired were 25 or under. And had to pay $15 to get ones even trainable back in 2010, $10 and more to get a girl for the front desk worthwhile.
And when I got an app from someone who'd done 2 years at McD's I didn't look at it as someone I could pay shit to and would stay, like most other employers I saw it as someone who'd learned the ropes, could handle shit from coworkers and the public and they went to the top of the list.
You get what you pay for. And you naysayers completely fail to understand a higher wage will attract a better pool of employees.


It's very significant.

We've been sold this change was to help those struggling to make a living. We've been sold that this will affect so many low-income families, single mom's and people working two jobs, etc.

The majority of the people this will effect are kids without responsibilities, who are still in school and who live with mom and dad.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:53 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The undeniable fact here is that 60,000 people are now out of work as a direct result of this mandated wage increase.


(Pssssst)

(the article said 'estimated', and 'by 2019')


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:54 pm
 


Coach85 Coach85:
The majority of the people this will effect are kids without responsibilities, who are still in school and who live with mom and dad.


And that's the excuse to keep these wages low! :idea:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:55 pm
 


herbie herbie:
You get what you pay for. And you naysayers completely fail to understand a higher wage will attract a better pool of employees.


And this is your tacit admission that the higher wage discriminates against lower skilled workers and that it shuts them out of the job market.

:idea:


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