[herbie]

Like pumping my own gas, I'll walk past the bank of machines and get a credit union teller to deposit one $25 cheque in my bank. Credit union, cuz worse than those gas companies the goddam banks expect me to all the work and pay to do it for them.
I also won't take the shit off my table at McD's the bastards can keep hiring people to clean it off and wipe the damn table clean, which they WON'T if you keep doing it.
Stupidest thing I've seen ever are those blinking lights and signs that tell you which till is open when you've been standing in line watching for the next one anyway, so long as managers are that fucking dumb as to shell out for technology like that they can all eat shit.

[bootlegga]

herbie herbie:

And you think that's not going to happen even if they cut the minimum wage in half?
FFS the WalMart here put the self checkouts in back when the wage was under $8, saw them at supermarkets years before that.
Did your bank fees GO DOWN because they put in those teller machines in the 90s?
Did they put in those self run order kiosks to save you money?
When GM got a 2 tier contract with a $14 start wage years ago, did they get rid of the robots and hire more hand assemblers?

The point is that if you raise the minimum wage too high, then replacing workers with self-serve checkouts becomes more cost effective and maybe even reduces costs long term.

I can't remember the last time I saw a kid twirling a sign outside a pizza joint here in Edmonton - but one of the factors is likely because minimum wage in Alberta has increased by 30% in 2 years.

I don't know about where you live but I'm seeing ATMs replacing cashiers at bottle depots, self serve kiosks at Cineplex, Shopper's Drug Mart, even robotic sign twirlers outside Mr. Lube!

Rapid increases in minimum wage spur employers to examine whether or not self-serve is more cost effective than cashiers, and many employers are finding out that it is, to the detriment of cashiers.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

The point is that if you raise the minimum wage too high, then replacing workers with self-serve checkouts becomes more cost effective and maybe even reduces costs long term.

I can't remember the last time I saw a kid twirling a sign outside a pizza joint here in Edmonton - but one of the factors is likely because minimum wage in Alberta has increased by 30% in 2 years.

I don't know about where you live but I'm seeing ATMs replacing cashiers at bottle depots, self serve kiosks at Cineplex, Shopper's Drug Mart, even robotic sign twirlers outside Mr. Lube!

Rapid increases in minimum wage spur employers to examine whether or not self-serve is more cost effective than cashiers, and many employers are finding out that it is, to the detriment of cashiers.

Exactly. Making it cost efficient to replace a worker with a machine is a serious downside to the minimum wage.

Now think it out a little bit further and ask how many jobs have been totally eliminated because the minimum wage makes them prohibitive to employers in terms of ROI?

There's a lot of entry-level jobs that just don't exist anymore because they're not cost-efficient.

For example, I can't remember the last time I saw someone get hired anywhere as a 'trainee' or an 'apprentice'. It just doesn't happen anymore.

[Tricks]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

For example, I can't remember the last time I saw someone get hired anywhere as a 'trainee' or an 'apprentice'. It just doesn't happen anymore.

That's because for the last 15 years entry level jobs require management level experience.

[BartSimpson]

[herbie]

My counterpoint is that they're doing it regardless and will continue to.
Just like where employers once trained you, since certifications were brought in you're expected now to take and pay for SuperHost, Serving it Right, WHMIS, FoodSafe programs before they'll even look at your applications.
Because of being in such a small town my old computer store was the only place where young ones could learn the basics to even start to prepare for A+ training. I only got ONE kid in 20 years who'd moved away for a couple years and paid thousands to get his, came back here and worked a couple years for me to get practical experience.

In other words, blaming the minimum wage for automation is a false assumption. Same as blaming the minimum wage for offshoring, when companies are allowed to do that you can't expect N American workers to 'compete' against $6 a DAY wages in Bangladesh....

[Zipperfish]

You can't really blame the businesses for bitching. It's a big hit on their bottom line. On the other hand, they'll do what business does: adapt. Well-managed ones will thrive, some will go out of business--to make more room for other, more innovative, businesses.

[BartSimpson]

So here's a question: Since employers get fined for paying less than minimum wage should we also fine and prosecute workers who are willing to work for less than the legal wage?

[herbie]

Both of them?

[BartSimpson]

herbie herbie:

Both of them?

Yes. Fine and prosecute the employers and the workers who violate the wage laws.

Why not? Why should a class of brigand workers be allowed to profit from an unfair advantage over people like yourself who obey the law?

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

herbie herbie:

Both of them?

Yes. Fine and prosecute the employers and the workers who violate the wage laws.

Why not? Why should a class of brigand workers be allowed to profit from an unfair advantage over people like yourself who obey the law?

Employment Standards legislation only applies to employers. It’s not a violation of any law to work for less than minimum.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Most Ontarians back minimum wage hike, say it will benefit the economy

Special to Financial Post Brian Fitzpatrick
January 16, 2018 6:00 AM EST
Two-thirds of Ontario residents support the province’s minimum wage increase, although the perception of whether it will benefit the economy breaks down largely along party lines, according to a new poll.

The survey by Forum Research, which questioned 1,022 random Ontario voters, found that 62 per cent of those who responded were in favour of the increase, which saw the minimum wage jump from $11.60 to $14, with 38 per cent strongly in favour.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the survey showed those who make the least are most enthusiastic about the change. Of those who make between $20,000 and $40,000, 74 per cent favoured the hike. The survey was conducted between Jan. 11 and 13.

“We’re not surprised by the high approval rate,” Lorne Bozinoff, president of Forum Research, said. “I think it seems like free money to people, so what’s not to like?

“But what is surprising is that support for the move is spread across all income groups. A lot of people are in favour, even though they themselves aren’t affected.”

Seventy-three per cent of people aged 65 and over voiced approval, as did 70 per cent of women and nine out of ten Ontario Liberal Party supporters. Seven per cent offered no firm opinion.

One third of responders disapproved of the move, which was considered a negative by 40 per cent of all men surveyed. Among those who vote Progressive Conservative, 53 per cent thought the raise was a bad idea.

However, people earning between $40,000 and $100,000 showed no more than 37 per cent disapproval across four wage brackets, indicating many higher earners were in favour of the increase....

http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... he-economy

[herbie]

OMG! Zinnnng!
I meant both the workers with such LOW SELF ESTEEM they'd even consider working for less than minimum wage. They need psychological help not fines...

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

Most Ontarians back minimum wage hike, say it will benefit the economy

The same idiots who created the largest sub sovereign debt in the world,
created student debts of hundreds of thousands of dollars, dont have $1000 in the bank,
have zero actual economic literacy, and voted for the Wynndbag I dont know how many times, approve.



Just because something is popular, doesn't make it a good idea.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

Just because something is popular, doesn't make it a good idea.

....says the guy who’a in love with the most unpopular president in history and a Russian dictator. The anti-democratic force is strong with this one.

And who created student debts??? Got that one wrong.