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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:03 am
 


stemmer stemmer:
[Why should we be the dumping grounds for countries who won't reciprocate?



well, you and I both know that is a result of incredibly poor
negotiations.

But it looks more and more everyone was in a big hurry to sell the farm
at any price..


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:15 am
 


stemmer stemmer:
Pseudonym Pseudonym:
stemmer stemmer:
The Big Three are looking for loans that will be paid back. Sorry not the same thing as giving FREE money to the banks and financial institutions who created this problem to begin with...

We must do everything possible we can do to maintain what little we have left in the manufacturing sector...

But why should it be the government giving them a loan? If they can't get it from the banks, then the banks must not consider it a safe investment. Why should the US government?


Not paying too much attention to the news are you???? Banks and credit institutions have tightened their belts.... Loans are very difficult to get. This is one of the reasons no one is buying cars....

But weren't those TARP funds given to the banks so they could make these sorts of loans? My point still stands. Government getting into this is just a bad idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:41 am
 


So it's OK for government to give free money to the credit corporations who created this mess BUT it's not OK for government to loan money that will be repaid to victims of the credit corporations?

Sorry but that logic is failed....and makes no sense...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:46 am
 


Yeah, like I'd ever listen to an asshole like Buchanan.

stemmer stemmer:
How can a worker in Flint, Michigan or Windsor, ON compete with the wages paid in India or China...???? That's the big problem with global trade. North America is the most desirous consumer market in the world.

Why should we be the dumping grounds for countries who won't reciprocate?

Modern day warfare is now economic warfare.... Why should I give my hard earned Canadian dollars to Asia, China, Russia, India? Better to put my money back into North America...

IF or WHEN another 9-11 crisis hits North America it will NOT be Toyota, Honda, Sony or Panasonc who will be stepping in to assist us...


North American workers comepte with Asian workers by being more educated, more productive and better trained. Which would you prefer; $5 an hour making teapots or t-shirts or $40 an hour writing computer software (or some other skilled job)? Many jobs we do in Canada/the US can not be done in the Third World because the workers do not have the training to do them.

You also obviously don't understand how connected everything is these days with globalization. If you ban imports, then be prepared to watch dozens of companies fail, followed by an economic collapse that makes this one look like boom times and the meltdown of the global world economy. Then we can have WW3 and leave the earth as a radioactive cinder.

The thing is you are not giving your hard earned dollars to China by buying shoes (or anything else) at Wal-Mart. This argument is a total red herring. Only a small portion of the $25 you pay for those shoes is left in China (maybe $2), with another 10-15% going to shipping. The rest all goes to Wal-Mart, an American company. By making those shoes in China, it earns higher profits, causing your mutual fund/stock prices to increase, building you a nest egg for the future. It alos allows Wal-Mart to grow quickly, building new stores and selling more goods. Tons of jobs are created, in construction, administration, retail sales, etc. Not all of them are $40 an hour jobs, but some of them are.

If all you are worried about is good paying jobs staying in Canada, then don't shop at Wal-Mart, buy from high-end boutiques and retailers who also manufacture their products overseas. That will alow them to grow quickly as well, hire more people, and create jobs through contruction of new stores, etc.

If you want all those high paying manufacturing jobs to stay, then fine. Stop buying from Wal-Mart and buy from companies who do manufacture in North America, but expect to pay at least 25% more for your goods than you do now.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:08 am
 


think North Americans naively believet the Japanese, Chinese, and other Asian countries, and ME were really engaged in free trade

These countries do NOT engage in free trade

The Japanese are not capitalists, they are mercantalists and the Chinese and other Asian countries have probably learned a lot for them

Remember China had a thriving market 5000 years ago so they know a few things about trade

I agree to a limited extent with protectionism

Its now clear that NAFTA has been a disaster, It was sold to the USA & Canada as a way to combat the EU and help our manufacturring workers, yet most of our jobs and factories actually went to China

The morons in DC & Ottawa need to help bring manufacturing back to the North America lowering corporate taxes and providing incentives for companies that want to hire Americans...

Why should my hard earned dollars being going to corporations headquartered in Tokyo, Beging, Berlin, New Delhi????

Look how many hospitals, schools and other facilities got money in North America from the Big Three...

As far as our quality being inferior, that is a myth being propagated by lefties, socialists and tree huggers....





PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:10 am
 


stemmer stemmer:

How can a worker in Flint, Michigan or Windsor, ON compete with the wages paid in India or China...???? That's the big problem with global trade. North America is the most desirous consumer market in the world.

Why should we be the dumping grounds for countries who won't reciprocate?

Modern day warfare is now economic warfare.... Why should I give my hard earned Canadian dollars to Asia, China, Russia, India? Better to put my money back into North America...

IF or WHEN another 9-11 crisis hits North America it will NOT be Toyota, Honda, Sony or Panasonc who will be stepping in to assist us...


your love for GM has left you blind folded to the fact that they operate like every other corporation today...GLOBALY.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:16 am
 


think North Americans naively believet the Japanese, Chinese, and other Asian countries, and ME were really engaged in free trade

These countries do NOT engage in free trade

The Japanese are not capitalists, they are mercantalists and the Chinese and other Asian countries have probably learned a lot for them

Remember China had a thriving market 5000 years ago so they know a few things about trade

I agree to a limited extent with protectionism

Its now clear that NAFTA has been a disaster, It was sold to the USA & Canada as a way to combat the EU and help our manufacturring workers, yet most of our jobs and factories actually went to China

The morons in DC & Ottawa need to help bring manufacturing back to the North America lowering corporate taxes and providing incentives for companies that want to hire Americans...

Why should my hard earned dollars being going to corporations headquartered in Tokyo, Beging, Berlin, New Delhi????

Look how many hospitals, schools and other facilities got money in North America from the Big Three...

As far as our quality being inferior, that is a myth being propagated by lefties, socialists and tree huggers....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:17 am
 


People from Poland, Russia, India are as well educated as North Americans and some would argue better...

Ever notice high paying IT jobs are being outsourced to India? You can hire a nuclear physicists for the same wage a Walmart greeter is paid in Canada....

WW3? This is the new war front. Nations will be ruined and mastered via economics and financial crisis... If we continue down this path better learn to speak Cantonese or Mandarin soon....

Globalization? I refuse to surrender my Canadian sovereignty to the UN....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:24 am
 


stemmer stemmer:
Why should my hard earned dollars being going to corporations headquartered in Tokyo, Beging, Berlin, New Delhi????


Unless you're buying Lenovo laptops, Sony Mini-disc players, BASF electronics or poorly made t-shirts made in India, you don't have to worry.

Most of the stuff North Americans buy is made for North American companies for sale in North American stores and the profits stay here in North America.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:05 pm
 


stemmer stemmer:
So it's OK for government to give free money to the credit corporations who created this mess BUT it's not OK for government to loan money that will be repaid to victims of the credit corporations?

Sorry but that logic is failed....and makes no sense...

No, its not okay, but it has already been done, so let's try not to compund the problem, shall we?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:33 pm
 


bootlegga bootlegga:
stemmer stemmer:
Why should my hard earned dollars being going to corporations headquartered in Tokyo, Beging, Berlin, New Delhi????


Unless you're buying Lenovo laptops, Sony Mini-disc players, BASF electronics or poorly made t-shirts made in India, you don't have to worry.

Most of the stuff North Americans buy is made for North American companies for sale in North American stores and the profits stay here in North America.


The goods North Americans buy should be sold by North American companies and manufactured by North Americans and the profits should remain in North America....

The direction we are currently going will mean NIL manufacturing in North America.... And what sector will the displaced manufacturing persons be working in? Walmart can only hire so many greeters, Sears so many cashiers, K-Mart so many sales clerks....

Globalization is just wrong. it is not for the benefit of the middle, working class....

Again how can a computer programmer working with EDS in Ottawa or Nappa Valley compete with a programmer in India IF the person in India is paid 1/2 the wage....

Wake up and smell the roses and stop buying to this globalization bs....


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:12 pm
 


I'm not clicking a link with Pat Buchanan being the author, considering his Holocaust revisionist and Nazi-apologist views. Fuck that.

I agree stemmer that the US has been fisted involving free trade, especially with nations who don't reciprocate, but I cannot click that link


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:34 pm
 


stemmer stemmer:
The goods North Americans buy should be sold by North American companies and manufactured by North Americans and the profits should remain in North America....

The direction we are currently going will mean NIL manufacturing in North America.... And what sector will the displaced manufacturing persons be working in? Walmart can only hire so many greeters, Sears so many cashiers, K-Mart so many sales clerks....

Globalization is just wrong. it is not for the benefit of the middle, working class....

Again how can a computer programmer working with EDS in Ottawa or Nappa Valley compete with a programmer in India IF the person in India is paid 1/2 the wage....

Wake up and smell the roses and stop buying to this globalization bs....


If you don't like capitalism, then move to Cuba, because that'swhat this is plain and simple. Corporations will always look to lower costs and increase profits, that the way the business model works. North America was the world's sweat shop for much of the 19th century, we just conveniently forget it. We assumed that we would always have the high paying manufacturing jobs, which obviously wasn't the case.

I've already said that globalization benefits the wealthy and not the middle class (mostly because most of us can't afford large stock portfolios). I don't like globalization anymore than anyone else. I was in the Navistar thread defending a 'Buy Canadian' policy on the 1300 trucks we are ordering and wondering why we couldn't wait a few more months (and maybe even spend a little bit more) for a Canadian-made truck.

However, trade is so inter-connected these days that a protectionist wall or two will bring everyone down. It was just like the auto industry. Sure, we could have let the big 3 fail, but that would have affected millions of people worldwide (almost 600,000 in Canada alone) and caused pretty much every car company to shed jobs and take a big hit, making the current crisis even worse than it already is.

I've also said that the profits do stay here. The profit from making a t-shirt in China isn't from the $2 they pay somebody over there to make it, it's from the $25 the kid down the street pays for that T-shirt at the local mall. Therefore, the profits do stay here.

The biggest 'problem' with globalization is that the vast majority of consumers have been voting with their wallets for the last decade or two. Why do you think Wal-Mart is the world's biggest company? It's not because they sell high-end designer goods, it's because they sell low quality crap made for pennies overseas, then ship it here and sell it to us at low low prices (at least when compared to most of their competitors). If you want to end the cycle, then you (and everyone else) has to stop shopping at places like that and go to Roots (or some other more expensive store that sells made in Canada goods) and pay that extra premium.

You can complain that globalization hasn't helped the middle class, but why do you think DVD players are $50 at Future Shop? Because there are dozens of factories around the world churning them out 24/7, not just a couple of factories down east (like there was in the early 90s).

Globalization has both belped and hurt the middle class. It has stolen manufacturing jobs away from them in huge numbers, but it has also incredibly increased the standard of living for them as well. So far, most people in the West have been more concerned with cheap plasma TVs and DVD players than manufacturing jobs.





PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:37 pm
 


Lots of nice ole Chevy's in Cuba :lol: :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:14 pm
 


I know in the 1950's & 1960's, my grandfather a longshoreman could afford to buy a new Chevy every 2-3 years. My grandmother was an housewife. They owned their own home and lived comfortably...

Today it takes two couples working to maintain an home...

So IMHO the middle class was better off prior to all this globalization bs...


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