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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:24 pm
 


dino_bobba_renno wrote:
romanP wrote:
dino_bobba_renno wrote:
The car only has a top 50 km/hr and most provinces and municipalities simply don't have any legislation regarding blended traffic.


Have you read the Highway Traffic Act? Bicycles are considered road vehicles, and must be ridden on the road by law. When was the last time you saw a bicycle go faster than 50km/h?


And what exactly do bikes and Zen Cars have in common? Are you saying that because you can ride a bike on the road that anyone should be able to pull any kind of vehicle onto the road. How about go carts? Maybe golf carts, they're electric. Grab a brain.


I'm not saying that I can ride a bike on the road. I'm saying it's the law that you must ride a bicycle on the road. There are also many other kinds of low-speed electric and gasoline vehicles on the road, including scooters and electric bicycles. Some electric scooters don't even require a license to drive, but are legal for the road, because of their low speed.

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Besides, bikes weren't required to be on the road 20 years ago.


This isn't 20 years ago.

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Studies were done and found it was safer to have them on the roads, then the issue was debated and following that legislation was created to allow them to be there.


They are not "allowed" on the road any more than a car. Bicycles are considered road vehicles. It is required that they be ridden on a road.

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romanP wrote:
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Whether Zenn likes it or not that will take time as studies will have to be done, debated and turned into legislation.


What studies? It's probably safer to be driving any low-speed electric car than it is a bicycle. You've got a cage around you to protect you from the crash.


Are they safer? Prove it.


Well, let's see. Four wheels, seatbelts and a cage, versus two wheels, no seatbelts and no cage. You tell me, what's safer? It's not rocket science.

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Keep in mind it's not just about someone hitting you when your driving one. It's about the potential for you to do harm to others as well such as pedestrians.


If that's the case, why are Hummers legal?

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Are the brakes on this vehicle sufficient for the weight of the car? Does it stop efficiently on ice in the winter time? Are the batteries potentially toxic and there for require warning labels? Should they be required to carry the same amount of insurance as a normal car? Thats just to do with the car.


None of this is any different from any other car. They all go through standards tests to make sure they are safe.

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"Well people won't be allowed to drive them on roads with higher speed limits" you say. Really? Says who? There are no laws to that effect so how do you stop some door knob from doing it? How do the people who are driving them know where they can and can not drive if it hasn't been defined?


Oh my fucking god. Please read the Highway Traffic Act. Please. In fact, don't even step into your car again until you have done so, you might hurt someone with your ignorance.

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These cars may be the next great thing but until they have passed safety and legislation which restricts what they can and can not do is created they are going to have to wait for the federal, provincial and municipal governments and regulatory bodies to catch up. Such is the case with any new technology. Anything less would be negligent.


Most of that legislation already exists.


Last edited by romanP on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:26 pm
 


Streaker wrote:
I just see a double-standard. Horse-drawn carriages are okay, farm tractors are okay, scooters are okay, bicycles ok etc...

But not a small electric car.

Go figure.


No one is saying the Zenn car is not ok but like every other vehicle you mentioned it should be subject to the scrutiny of regulators and legislation should be passed relating to the safe operation of them prior to them being approved to be on the roads.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:32 pm
 


Transport Canada has always had it's head up it's ass.Just ask anyone who's tried to import a car or motorcycle from the US. I don't know if their corrupt or simply incompetent.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:36 pm
 


ridenrain wrote:
Transport Canada has always had it's head up it's ass.Just ask anyone who's tried to import a car or motorcycle from the US. I don't know if their corrupt or simply incompetent.


We finally agree on something. I'm constantly amazed at how dopey Transport Canada is.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:20 pm
 


romanP wrote:
I'm not saying that I can ride a bike on the road. I'm saying it's the law that you must ride a bicycle on the road. There are also many other kinds of low-speed electric and gasoline vehicles on the road, including scooters and electric bicycles. Some electric scooters don't even require a license to drive, but are legal for the road, because of their low speed.


Have you ever been in a crash test simulator, the kind they pull up to schools that simulate a crash at 20 km/hour? These cars can go up to 50 km/hour which can cause some serious damage to an occupant or the person/thing they hit. How fast does a scooter go?

And ya sure can ride your scooter on the road but you must also abide by certain rules, no? Can you take one on a highway? Do you need to wear a helmet when riding one? Why do think that is? Some one day said "gee, I look pretty damn fashionable in this helmet, I think I'll wear it all the time". No, it's because (once again) studies were done, the issue was debated and laws regarding the safe operation of that vehicle were passed.

There have been tons of vehicles that have been allowed in the US that weren't legal in Canada due to safety concerns such as roll over factors. How do you not know this isn't the case with the Zenn car?


romanP wrote:
Well, let's see. Four wheels, seatbelts and a cage, versus two wheels, no seatbelts and no cage. You tell me, what's safer? It's not rocket science.


Again, prove it. Show me the documentation. Show me anything from a source other than the people who make them. Do you have any research that was conducted by a Canadian regulatory body?


romanP wrote:
If that's the case, why are Hummers legal?


Because studies were done and they passed the regulatory requirements. What are the regulatory requirements governing low speed electric cars? Oh, wait a minute there aren't any.

romanP wrote:
Oh my fucking god. Please read the Highway Traffic Act. Please. In fact, don't even step into your car again until you have done so, you might hurt someone with your ignorance.


My ignorance, please Mr. Lets just throw a new untested motor vehicle that only goes 50 km/h on 100 km/h road ways with out giving one shit about how it will affect traffic congestion and road safety. By all means, pull out those regulations regarding this car and post a link to it.



romanP wrote:
Most of that legislation already exists.


Most but not all. Is it tied directly into low speed electric cars? We had tons of laws regarding privacy but none of them applied to the internet until the laws were amended to include it. Same goes for these new vehicles, until the law specifically specifies them and classifies them they are legal limbo land and charges relating to their use could easily be challenged.

This isn’t just about safety either, it’s also about what they have the potential to do in regards to traffic congestion in large cities, something that most municipalities will be looking at closely before allowing them.

But if you want go ahead and jump onto that “save the environment” band wagon with out looking at the possible consequences first, kind of like that ethanol / food shortage thing. Anything to save the planet right?

What happens when all those regular cars on gas are being snarled in traffic jams cause by these new electrics and sit there for hours idling? Kind of defeats that "save the environment" argument doesn't it?

Besides no one is trying to out right ban the electric car. All the governments at various levels are saying is they need time to ensure the safety of the public and make sure it will not compound an all ready serious problem of traffic congestion.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:15 am
 


Streaker wrote:
I just see a double-standard. Horse-drawn carriages are okay, farm tractors are okay, scooters are okay, bicycles ok etc...

But not a small electric car.

Go figure.

And none of those vehicles are expected to integrate with traffic. You won't see a horse and buggy trying to keep up on a city street. Farm tractors aren't used for daily commuting they must have insurance to drive on the road and I can count on one hand the amount of tractors I've seen on the road in the last year. Scooters and bicycles can both ride on the side of a street and are not a hazard and will not block traffic. These electric cars are meant as gas car replacements and appear to be about the same size as a Chevy Sprint. Most of the streets even in PG range from 50 kph to 70 and this car has a top speed of 40 kph. In any great number this car will just be a traffic hazard.


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