[Newsbot]

Title: Canadian military ponders integrated force with U.S. to respond to hotspots
Category: Military
Posted By: andyt
Date: 2015-09-28 17:06:55
Canadian

[Canadian_Mind]

Dumb idea. There is no need for an integrated command structure. All it will do is suck us into conflicts we don't want to be in. We can generate Joint Command Structures like ISAF as the need arises for a particular mission.

[Jabberwalker]

It will further erode what is left of our own military capability. The Americans will view us as just another source of reserves ... as a fifty first national guard to pick a soldier here and there from to keep their own numbers up. You may as well dissolve the Canadian military and just have thge Americans recruit here.

Haig wanted to use the Canadians as piecemeal reinforcements in British units 100 years ago rather than letting them fight together as their own force, as well. History has shown that we are better off when we control the fate of our own.

[BartSimpson]

No offense intended, but unless you folks buck up and develop a military capable of defending your country then this proposal won't be a choice. It will simply and incrementally become a reality.

[Jabberwalker]

I know that you are right and that doubly pisses me off!

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No offense intended, but unless you folks buck up and develop a military capable of defending your country then this proposal won't be a choice. It will simply and incrementally become a reality.

The military we have is capable of defending it from everyone but the States (admittedly due in large part to the oceans and most everyone else's lack of sealift) - and no amount of defence spending by us would ever create a strong enough army, navy and air force to defeat the US.

Still, that doesn't mean I don't wish we had a much more capable navy and air force. Mulroney cancelling those nuke subs still hurts today...

[Thanos]

I don't like the idea of combined action because I don't think it would be restricted to so-called hotspots. It's too open to abuse and lying of the sort that got the US into Iraq in 2003. I can't think of too many Canadians, even conservative ones, that would want to see us obligated to go into Iran (for example) based on whatever lies and manufactured intelligence is coming out of the White House. This is one of those ideas that sounds terrific on paper, at least to those who wrote it, but seems fairly oblivious to the real-world political dangers it would expose the Canadian military to.

[martin14]

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No offense intended, but unless you folks buck up and develop a military capable of defending your country then this proposal won't be a choice. It will simply and incrementally become a reality.

The military we have is capable of defending it from everyone but the States (admittedly due in large part to the oceans and most everyone else's lack of sealift)

I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense.

The only thing stopping the Russians or Chinese from walking right into Canada is not
the Canadian military; It's the U.S.A.

[Jabberwalker]

martin14 martin14:

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No offense intended, but unless you folks buck up and develop a military capable of defending your country then this proposal won't be a choice. It will simply and incrementally become a reality.

The military we have is capable of defending it from everyone but the States (admittedly due in large part to the oceans and most everyone else's lack of sealift)

I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense.

The only thing stopping the Russians or Chinese from walking right into Canada is not
the Canadian military; It's the U.S.A.

Our military does not have the capability of defending just one of our cities. Our entire regulsr Armed Forces, now, will fit in an Olympic sports stadium.

When I was born, the Armed Forces were twice the size of what they are now and the population of Canada was one half of today's. When I was in the Forces in the 1970's, there were 85,000 of us and about 15,000 reserves.We are now at 68,000 Reg force and 27,000 Reserves in a country that is a third larger. The erosion of numbers and capability has been steady and one directional since the Trudeau years.

[desertdude]

My question is why do you need a large military in the first place, unless you have ambitions of being the global policeman. You are like one of those animals which does not have any natural predators.

Your closet so called enemy would be Russia but then there is USA. Who at any cost won't tolerate any Russian incursion and not for any altruistic reasons.

[Canadian_Mind]

Have to disagree with you Boots. The Russians are very much capable of dropping 20 000 troops on our shores over a 24 hour period, 50 000 over a week. We do not have the capabilities to prevent them from making it here, nor do we have the manpower to repulse them once they've landed. Nevermind China.

Yes, we still have the USA as an ally. But I believe we should be questioning whether or not the USA will exist in it's current form 20 years from now.

[Jabberwalker]

You have to wonder if the US is going to hold together.

[Canadian_Mind]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

You have to wonder if the US is going to hold together.

Whether it does or it doesn't, it's power is going to decline. Unless we are willing to develop a relationship with Russia/China akin to the one we have with the USA (and accept the abrupt changes that come with it) we need to develop the capacity to effectively tell them to fuck off whenever needed. Unlike the USA whom we could never win against without the entirety of NATO backing us, I do believe we could develop and maintain the capacity to solo against both Russia and China if relations degraded to the point where we had to defend our own shores.

[andyt]

Canadian_Mind Canadian_Mind:

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

You have to wonder if the US is going to hold together.

Whether it does or it doesn't, it's power is going to decline. Unless we are willing to develop a relationship with Russia/China akin to the one we have with the USA (and accept the abrupt changes that come with it) we need to develop the capacity to effectively tell them to fuck off whenever needed. Unlike the USA whom we could never win against without the entirety of NATO backing us, I do believe we could develop and maintain the capacity to solo against both Russia and China if relations degraded to the point where we had to defend our own shores.

Nukes. Everybody who is anybody has them or is trying to get them. In the scenario where the US tanks, and Russia doesn't, we'd never be able to stop the with conventional weapons.

But the US has a lot of room to decline and still be one of a dominant powers, just not the only world superpower. We should also be asking how Russia will keep from holding it together. And China has problems coming up with all their men who can't find women and an economy trying to grow up - their growth rates are declining and they have no social support systems for all the people who will want jobs. Then, look out, but it could also turn to internal war.

I still think there will be a lot of pressure on us for our resources from the US. At some point, a union may be inevitable, and make the most sense. (Not advocating for this). We should be looking at how to get the best deal in that scenario, ie full statehood for each province.

[bootlegga]

martin14 martin14:

bootlegga bootlegga:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No offense intended, but unless you folks buck up and develop a military capable of defending your country then this proposal won't be a choice. It will simply and incrementally become a reality.

The military we have is capable of defending it from everyone but the States (admittedly due in large part to the oceans and most everyone else's lack of sealift)

I'm sorry, but this is just nonsense.

The only thing stopping the Russians or Chinese from walking right into Canada is not
the Canadian military; It's the U.S.A.