[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alas, there may be nothing the RCMP can do unless a crime is committed, but there was a crime committed. He tried to leave Canada to participate in the war in Syria. That is a crime. And for some reason, they just kept his passport, instead of his lily white ass in jail.

If he's smart enough not to say he's going to syria to participate in the war, there's not much they can do to arrest him. The cops said as much on TV.

Is it joining the war in Syria that's illegal, or joining ISIS? Because there was a lot of support here for the Dutch bikers that went to Syria. They also were joining some rebel group.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

And Andy, there is something people can do instead of your suggestion that they be shot or hung; all the people that noticed his radicalization could do something besides sit around and watch it happen. Intervention, perhaps.

I agree. Probably the most effective. The police did talk with his family and Imam tho, and that didn't seem to help. This I why I'm so on about not alienating all Canadian Muslims by spreading he hate. These are the people who need to get in somebody like this' face. And I do think Canada needs to get in the face of the Muslim community that they urgently need to do this, because things can get very bad for them otherwise, as we get more events like this. It's in their own self-interest to be much more active in confronting radicalization. It's in our own best interest to make Muslims allies in that, instead of just spreading the hate.

I agree, 100%. That's why I've always used the terms 'Muslim' and 'extremist' individually.

andyt andyt:

Is it joining the war in Syria that's illegal, or joining ISIS? Because there was a lot of support here for the Dutch bikers that went to Syria. They also were joining some rebel group.

ISIS. It's not illegal for any Canadian to go overseas and take up arms, so long as they aren't fighting Canadian Forces. But ISIS was made a special case I believe. I could be wrong, it was a recent change.

[andyt]

That's where it gets tricky. Most of these guys are smart enough not to tell the cops they are joining ISIS, or going to fight at all.

As for keeping the distinction between Muslims and Islamists, you can see how hard some people are pushing here to erase it. That pressure is only going to intensify with events like the recent attacks. I hope people can resist, continue to see the difference, or we are going to be walking down one ugly road.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

...I've always used the terms 'Muslim' and 'extremist' individually.

Myself I defer to the moslems like Turkey's PM who denies there's a 'moderate' or 'extreme' islam. He says there is just islam and there are just moslems.

Call me crazy, but I don't see what's wrong with taking moslems at their word.

[Freakinoldguy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

This incident is extremely disturbing to say the least but what's really disturbing is Mulcairs response.

I think you are too easily disturbed.

RIP to the falllen soldier. Shitty.

We've been threatened with attacks like this for 13 years and all the naysayers and deniers kept saying was that it wouldn't or couldn't happen to peace loving, everyone's welcome Canada so we should just relax.

Well, given the recent spate of deadly incidents it's apparent they were once again 100% wrong and now that we've allowed these people to either legally enter or return to Canada and carryout their jihad, it's likely just started.

Because we would rather worry about offending the constitutional rights of these terrorists than the safety of our citizens we basically did nothing to alleviate the threats. So, we as a country have to bear alot of the responsibility for the needless deaths that are occurring now.

If you think these are one off incidents and we shouldn't be disturbed about them, then I guess I'm guilty as charged of being to easily disturbed.

RIP to the Fallen Soldiers.

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alas, there may be nothing the RCMP can do unless a crime is committed, but there was a crime committed. He tried to leave Canada to participate in the war in Syria. That is a crime. And for some reason, they just kept his passport, instead of his lily white ass in jail.

If he's smart enough not to say he's going to syria to participate in the war, there's not much they can do to arrest him. The cops said as much on TV.

Is it joining the war in Syria that's illegal, or joining ISIS? Because there was a lot of support here for the Dutch bikers that went to Syria. They also were joining some rebel group.

And because of that it's to bad we don't have a law on the books like Great Briton's Treason Act 1351 which apparently they're considering using to prosecute their homegrown terrorists.

$1:

The law: Passed 663 years ago during the reign of English King Edward III, the Treason Act of 1351 was one of the first statutes to codify and curtail the common law offense of treason. The law, distinguished between high treason (treason) was against the crown and petty treason (disloyalty to a subject). Guilt arises when: "A man doth compass or imagine the death of our lord the King, or of our lady his Queen or of their eldest son and heir."

"'Violating' your majesty's wife, the sovereign's eldest daughter, or the wife of the heir to the throne were also treasonous acts," the Guardian explains. "If you waged war against the king, aided the enemy or even killed the king's chancellor, your crime was punishable by death."

http://mic.com/articles/101742/british- ... amic-state

I suppose if we tried to enact a law like this it would violate some poor disenfranchised youth's Charter Rights and enacting it would take decades along with millions of dollars with virtually no chance of success given that the Supreme Court would ultimately decide it's fate.

[ShepherdsDog]

Wasn't treason still a capital offence in the Canadian military(QR&Os) even after it was removed from the Criminal code?

[Freakinoldguy]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Wasn't treason still a capital offence in the Canadian military(QR&Os) even after it was removed from the Criminal code?

Yup it used to be but it wouldn't help since the closest any of these Jihadi assholes ever got to a uniform was the one their victims were wearing.

I think this is what they use now since I couldn't find anything but Treasonous utterances in QR&O Volume II

Canada[edit]

Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada has two degrees of treason, called "high treason" and "treason."[9] However, both of these belong to the historical category of high treason, as opposed to petty treason which does not exist in Canadian law. Section 46 reads as follows:
"High treason(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada, (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.Treason(2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada, (a) uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province;(b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;(c) conspires with any person to commit high treason or to do anything mentioned in paragraph (a);(d) forms an intention to do anything that is high treason or that is mentioned in paragraph (a) and manifests that intention by an overt act; or(e) conspires with any person to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) or forms an intention to do anything mentioned in paragraph (b) and manifests that intention by an overt act."
It is also illegal for a Canadian citizen or a person who owes allegiance to Her Majesty in right of Canada to do any of the above outside Canada.

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment. The penalty for treason is imprisonment up to a maximum of life, or up to 14 years for conduct under subsection (2)(b) or (e) in peacetime

So we actually have a law in place that we could use against the ISIS assholes but I seriously doubt anything would come of it because it probably infringes on some wog's religious right to wage war against Canada.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alas, there may be nothing the RCMP can do unless a crime is committed, but there was a crime committed. He tried to leave Canada to participate in the war in Syria. That is a crime. And for some reason, they just kept his passport, instead of his lily white ass in jail.

If he's smart enough not to say he's going to syria to participate in the war, there's not much they can do to arrest him. The cops said as much on TV.

Is it joining the war in Syria that's illegal, or joining ISIS? Because there was a lot of support here for the Dutch bikers that went to Syria. They also were joining some rebel group.

And because of that it's to bad we don't have a law on the books like Great Briton's Treason Act 1351 which apparently they're considering using to prosecute their homegrown terrorists.

$1:

The law: Passed 663 years ago during the reign of English King Edward III, the Treason Act of 1351 was one of the first statutes to codify and curtail the common law offense of treason. The law, distinguished between high treason (treason) was against the crown and petty treason (disloyalty to a subject). Guilt arises when: "A man doth compass or imagine the death of our lord the King, or of our lady his Queen or of their eldest son and heir."

"'Violating' your majesty's wife, the sovereign's eldest daughter, or the wife of the heir to the throne were also treasonous acts," the Guardian explains. "If you waged war against the king, aided the enemy or even killed the king's chancellor, your crime was punishable by death."

http://mic.com/articles/101742/british- ... amic-state

I suppose if we tried to enact a law like this it would violate some poor disenfranchised youth's Charter Rights and enacting it would take decades along with millions of dollars with virtually no chance of success given that the Supreme Court would ultimately decide it's fate.

Actually that idea has been laughed at by British lawyers. they say it would never fly. But somebody should look into what sort of law does pass the constitution. Hell, the Reformacons are great as passing laws that get nullified by the Supremes - in the mean time tho these guys could sit in jail waiting for the appeal to work it's way thru, and then the Reformacons can do a Peter McKay and pass another law just as bad. And so on...

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

This incident is extremely disturbing to say the least but what's really disturbing is Mulcairs response.

I think you are too easily disturbed.

RIP to the falllen soldier. Shitty.

We've been threatened with attacks like this for 13 years and all the naysayers and deniers kept saying was that it wouldn't or couldn't happen to peace loving, everyone's welcome Canada so we should just relax.

Well, given the recent spate of deadly incidents it's apparent they were once again 100% wrong and now that we've allowed these people to either legally enter or return to Canada and carryout their jihad, it's likely just started.

Because we would rather worry about offending the constitutional rights of these terrorists than the safety of our citizens we basically did nothing to alleviate the threats. So, we as a country have to bear alot of the responsibility for the needless deaths that are occurring now.

If you think these are one off incidents and we shouldn't be disturbed about them, then I guess I'm guilty as charged of being to easily disturbed.

RIP to the Fallen Soldiers.

1) Nobody said it wouldn't or couldn't happen. But you should relax nonetheless and not give these terrorists what they want, which is mass hysteria and irrational fear. 2 amateur attacks in 13 years with 2 fatalities: we are not on the verge of extinction here. In fact if you look at all the ways Canadians kill each other on a daily basis, this doesn't even register as threat to the safety of our citizens. You're far more likely to be gunned down in the workplace by a disgruntled co-worker with a semi-automatic weapon and yet those killing sprees never seem to generate the same hysteria as this idiot whose elaborate and sophisticated terror plot consisted of just hitting someone with his car.

2) Regarding your comments about letting people into Canada, you must have missed the fact the NEITHER of the 2 attackers was a foreigner or had ever been overseas. In fact, both were White, Christian, native-born Canadians who recently converted.

[andyt]

Yeah, but if Muslims were illegal this wouldn't happen. Don't let any more in. Make them declare their religion when they apply, and bam, no immigration for you. I'm sure the jihadis will be honest and tell us they are Muslims. As for the ones already here, I'm not sure what the answer is. We've already had Thanos suggest concentration camps, not sure if any others are on board with this yet. As for the ones that were born here and then convert, history tells us what to do - Nobody expects the Canadian inquisition.

[Thanos]

I didn't suggest concentration camps. I suggested that one day these cocksuckers from the Bronze Age with their disgusting Hate-God are going to go too far and the reaction back at them will be exactly what they deserve*. It's an inevitability. Maybe not in Canada but certainly possible in a country like Australia, Britain, France, or even the US. Not every Western country in the world is as morally weak as multiculturalism, an immigration policy that can only be described as entirely suicidal for the host country to have adopted, and other failed liberal social and cultural theories have made Canada.

(* and I won't weep for a single one of them when it finally does happen)

[BeaverFever]

$1:

(* and I won't weep for a single one of them when it finally does happen

Who is them? All muslims, or do you mean terrorists? I know quite a few people who are muslims, all nice kind people, certainly nicer and kinder than your online persona (no offence), all of them modern and liberal, no beards, no burqas, no rigid lifestyle or self-segregation, and most drink booze...but nonetheless they are muslim. Will you weep for them?

[Thanos]

I wouldn't weep for them any more than I would for dead Nazis or dead Communists.

[BeaverFever]

Why? The people I'm referring to are good people. Surely you're not suggesting that the good people should die along with bad because of shared religion? Ironically that's exactly what the Nazis thought.