CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 28169
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:05 am
 


Title: Cattle and dairy farmers fear new food guide could hurt their industries
Category: Health
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2019-01-02 07:01:47
Canadian


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 30221
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:05 am
 


I'm not concerned with what the industry thinks, I'm interested in what they can prove. Show us your evidence that less meat and dairy in our diet gives us less nutrients.

Just because your industry has made profits off of scaring people into buying your products, doesn't mean you have a right to continue to do that.


Offline
Forum Elite
Forum Elite
Profile
Posts: 1633
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:36 am
 


Oh come on Doc there is always an end game and none of it really is about us. There seems to be a study to prove for and against everything. It’s to the point most people just ignore the studies. Whatever study you read will be disproved in a few anyway.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 13027
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:52 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
I'm not concerned with what the industry thinks, I'm interested in what they can prove. Show us your evidence that less meat and dairy in our diet gives us less nutrients.

Just because your industry has made profits off of scaring people into buying your products, doesn't mean you have a right to continue to do that.


Exactly. Economic interests of private industry should have absolutely zero bearing on nutritional guides. Although it seems that historically lobbyists have had quite a bit of influence so are a little upset over the loss of privilege.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 30221
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:54 am
 


housewife wrote:
Oh come on Doc there is always an end game and none of it really is about us. There seems to be a study to prove for and against everything. It’s to the point most people just ignore the studies. Whatever study you read will be disproved in a few anyway.


You are thinking where some BS study says 'Red Wine' is good for you one week, and bad for you the next. Such studies are usually based on what people remember eating over months and years. Very inaccurate. Can you remember what you had for lunch on the 2nd of December? ;) That's why you can't trust most 'food studies'. I just ignore them.

To be accurate, studies have to include a 'control' group, and to be really accurate they have to be 'double blind'. So to see if it's true that animal products give more nutrients, you'd have to take a group and feed them animal products, and take another group and feed them no animal products. For years. To be 'double blind' the researchers can't know which group is which. Which is impossible.

Luckily, there are people in the world who already voluntarily, or because they can't afford it; already eat mostly vegetables. And they are generally healthy, so long as they can farm or afford enough calories from plants to maintain their weight. The only group which eats a lot of animal products is the 'Western diet'.

There has been an accurate account of the diet in China, for several decades. Aptly called 'The China Study'. As the 'Western Diet' is introduced to China, it has been seeing the increase of trends like Cancers, Obesity, gluten intolerance, etc.

Not a big surprise, I suppose. So when I ask these people trying to once again skew the Canada Food guide in favour of their industry to prove their claims, I already know the answer. I'm just trying to get people to investigate the problem for themselves, rather than do what they are told to do. "Be an informed consumer' as I have put it. ;) Michael Pollan's seven words for the perfect diet are the best: "Eat Food. Not too much. Mostly plants."


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 30221
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:00 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
I'm not concerned with what the industry thinks, I'm interested in what they can prove. Show us your evidence that less meat and dairy in our diet gives us less nutrients.

Just because your industry has made profits off of scaring people into buying your products, doesn't mean you have a right to continue to do that.


Exactly. Economic interests of private industry should have absolutely zero bearing on nutritional guides. Although it seems that historically lobbyists have had quite a bit of influence so are a little upset over the loss of privilege.


When I was trying to get my diabetes under control, I went to a couple very educated nutritionists. One pointed out that the last few Canada Food Guides' were authored without the advice of any Doctors or any Nutritionists. Only representatives from Farmers, the Dairy industry, and corporate lobbyists.

Nobody who knew anything about nutrition. So the "Canada Food Guide" was really a list of the more powerful lobbyists to buy their products, not any sort of medical advice.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 27577
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:21 am
 


For me, it's pretty simple... don't consume anything that's bad for you and remember, too much of a good thing eventually becomes bad for you.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 62196
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:42 am
 


Here I thought the 'Canada Food Guide' was a reference for the good places to eat in Canada!

On an aside, the Streets of London pub in West Sacramento, California had POUTINE on the menu on Monday!

It was pretty good except that there were no cheese curds. The gravy had a touch of horseradish in it which was pretty tasty.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 30221
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:46 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
It was pretty good except that there were no cheese curds.


Sorry, they it was not "Poutine". To be officially Poutine, there must be cheese curds. The 'squeaky' kind.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 62196
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:51 am
 


I agree. Still, it was pretty tasty. The horseradish in the gravy was the clincher for me.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 30221
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:55 am
 


Yea, almost everything is better with Horseradish. [drool]


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 20619
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:22 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
housewife wrote:
Oh come on Doc there is always an end game and none of it really is about us. There seems to be a study to prove for and against everything. It’s to the point most people just ignore the studies. Whatever study you read will be disproved in a few anyway.


You are thinking where some BS study says 'Red Wine' is good for you one week, and bad for you the next. Such studies are usually based on what people remember eating over months and years. Very inaccurate. Can you remember what you had for lunch on the 2nd of December? ;) That's why you can't trust most 'food studies'. I just ignore them.

To be accurate, studies have to include a 'control' group, and to be really accurate they have to be 'double blind'. So to see if it's true that animal products give more nutrients, you'd have to take a group and feed them animal products, and take another group and feed them no animal products. For years. To be 'double blind' the researchers can't know which group is which. Which is impossible.

Luckily, there are people in the world who already voluntarily, or because they can't afford it; already eat mostly vegetables. And they are generally healthy, so long as they can farm or afford enough calories from plants to maintain their weight. The only group which eats a lot of animal products is the 'Western diet'.

There has been an accurate account of the diet in China, for several decades. Aptly called 'The China Study'. As the 'Western Diet' is introduced to China, it has been seeing the increase of trends like Cancers, Obesity, gluten intolerance, etc.

Not a big surprise, I suppose. So when I ask these people trying to once again skew the Canada Food guide in favour of their industry to prove their claims, I already know the answer. I'm just trying to get people to investigate the problem for themselves, rather than do what they are told to do. "Be an informed consumer' as I have put it. ;) Michael Pollan's seven words for the perfect diet are the best: "Eat Food. Not too much. Mostly plants."


The Western diet however is also high in fat, salt & sugar, not just meat and diary products. Yes, some of that fat comes from those meat/dairy products, but a lot of it comes in the form of saturated fat from deep-frying/cooking or all the added salt and/or sugar.

The Chinese often put meat in most of their dishes when they cook (unless they are dirt poor in the rural areas), with two key differences: the meat usually leaner (chicken or more often fish); and meat is just another ingredient (along with veggies, spices, etc.) in the overall dish, not the focus of it. Depending on the region, Chinese dishes (authentic ones, not the westernized crap most people are used to) often use less oil when they cook (only a tablespoon or two for an entire wok).

I agree with you that the meat/dairy industry is butt hurt that they are losing influence on the food guide, but honestly, how many people really follow it? If the majority of Canadians did, obesity probably wouldn't be an issue because even the older versions limited meat/dairy intake to three servings per day and called for lots of fruit/veggies:

Image

The new guide drops it to two servings of each per day, so I doubt there will be any serious health consequences long term if someone actually followed the new guide.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 30221
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:30 am
 


bootlegga wrote:
The Western diet however is also high in fat, salt & sugar, not just meat and diary products. Yes, some of that fat comes from those meat/dairy products, but a lot of it comes in the form of saturated fat from deep-frying/cooking or all the added salt and/or sugar.

The Chinese often put meat in most of their dishes when they cook (unless they are dirt poor in the rural areas), with two key differences: the meat usually leaner (chicken or more often fish); and meat is just another ingredient (along with veggies, spices, etc.) in the overall dish, not the focus of it. Depending on the region, Chinese dishes (authentic ones, not the westernized crap most people are used to) often use less oil when they cook (only a tablespoon or two for an entire wok).


The China Study found a direct link between the areas in China that ate meat, and diseases like colon and prostate cancer. Areas that traditionally ate less or no meat had a corresponding reduction in chronic diseases. That was before they started eating the 'Western Diet'.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
 Vancouver Canucks


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 62196
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:32 am
 


Boots, you're neglecting the fact that a whole bunch of Chinese cuisine includes various preparations of pork.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 20619
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:07 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
Boots, you're neglecting the fact that a whole bunch of Chinese cuisine includes various preparations of pork.


Not at all - in my experience, traditional Chinese dishes don't always use meat as the focus like they do in westernized dishes (Moo shu Pork, Sweet & Sour Pork, etc.).

Instead they'll add an ounce or two of pork to a dish that is largely vegetables/tofu to add some extra flavour. I'm not a tofu fan, but I know someone who stir fries tofu with chopped green peppers and a little bit of pork and it is delicious! [drool]

Yes, they do have meat-heavy dishes, but it's often fish or chicken dishes (much leaner than pork - and beef dishes are pretty rare), which often include healthy amounts of veggies as well. Again, this depends on which regional cuisine you are eating (China has many) - Cantonese dishes sometimes are heavy on pork, but in my experience, other regional cuisines often use less meat.

At least that has been my experience eating in China (Xian, Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing, Suzhou, Tianjin, Guangzhou, etc.), as well as eating at the homes of Chinese friends here in Canada.


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  1  2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: llama66 and 17 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.