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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:21 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:
PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Not talking about getting rid of the appeal system, just needs to be tweaked to prevent the ridiculous abuse by filth.

And meanwhile Paul Bernado et al are getting 3 squares a day, a bed, clothes, a roof, probably cable and internet access. How many Canadians can't even afford the 3 squares a day?
The last figures I saw were $50,000/yr to incarcerate someone in Canada.
I dunno about you, but I'd rather spend that 50k to give even just ONE person a leg up, rather than house, clothe and feed inhuman garbage.


I would love to spend that 50k in other ways too, but I refuse to let my morals be dictated by money.

I don't either. If there weren't anything better to spend it on then fine, let them rot in prison. But think about it for a second here. Some family just had a family member murdered in cold blood. The courts hand out a 25 year sentence, no parole. Now, those family members continue to be "victimized" by being part of the system that pays to keep that person's basic needs, and probably a few extras, flowing.
Actually, I think the death penalty should be something that must be approved by the victim's family, since I know there are some people out there that find the idea of state execution morally reprehensible. That way, SHOULD the death penalty be the potential sentence, it would be up to the victim's family to make the final decision whether to go with a prison term or death.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:28 pm
 


That means it would be an emotional sentence. We can not let emotions rule the world, nor the justice system.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:36 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Not talking about getting rid of the appeal system, just needs to be tweaked to prevent the ridiculous abuse by filth.

And meanwhile Paul Bernado et al are getting 3 squares a day, a bed, clothes, a roof, probably cable and internet access. How many Canadians can't even afford the 3 squares a day?
The last figures I saw were $50,000/yr to incarcerate someone in Canada.
I dunno about you, but I'd rather spend that 50k to give even just ONE person a leg up, rather than house, clothe and feed inhuman garbage.


I would love to spend that 50k in other ways too, but I refuse to let my morals be dictated by money.

I don't either. If there weren't anything better to spend it on then fine, let them rot in prison. But think about it for a second here. Some family just had a family member murdered in cold blood. The courts hand out a 25 year sentence, no parole. Now, those family members continue to be "victimized" by being part of the system that pays to keep that person's basic needs, and probably a few extras, flowing.
Actually, I think the death penalty should be something that must be approved by the victim's family, since I know there are some people out there that find the idea of state execution morally reprehensible. That way, SHOULD the death penalty be the potential sentence, it would be up to the victim's family to make the final decision whether to go with a prison term or death.


I had an aunt murdered by her stepson (almost 18yrs old at the time), and the only problem I had with the justice system was that he was treated as a young offender and served only 3 years for raping and murdering her. I felt 25 years would have been a better punishment than what he got, but I never felt the need to have him executed.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:57 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:
I had an aunt murdered by her stepson (almost 18yrs old at the time), and the only problem I had with the justice system was that he was treated as a young offender and served only 3 years for raping and murdering her. I felt 25 years would have been a better punishment than what he got, but I never felt the need to have him executed.
[/quote][/quote]
That's why I stated it could be an option. Some will elect to see things the way you do, and others may feel it's the only way they'll get true justice.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:02 pm
 


Brenda wrote:
That means it would be an emotional sentence. We can not let emotions rule the world, nor the justice system.


I think you may have misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I don't mean that the victim's family would be the ones solely responsible for the sentence.
The judge/jury would still make the recommendation, BUT, if the victim's family don't want to see the death penalty handed out, then the judge would hand out a sentence based on an appropriate prison term.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:38 pm
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
Brenda wrote:
That means it would be an emotional sentence. We can not let emotions rule the world, nor the justice system.


I think you may have misunderstood what I'm trying to say. I don't mean that the victim's family would be the ones solely responsible for the sentence.
The judge/jury would still make the recommendation, BUT, if the victim's family don't want to see the death penalty handed out, then the judge would hand out a sentence based on an appropriate prison term.

Ah, ok, thats the other way around :P


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:30 pm
 


EyeBrock wrote:
Drug smuggling is a capital offence in a lot of countries, including Pakistan and China.

I'm sorry, it's hard for me to feel sorry for any citizens of western countries, where ever they were born, who smuggle drugs into countries that kill you for doing it. Nobody forced them to do it and they still do it.
I'm sorry there are far more deserving cases at home that need our attention than British drug smugglers.

Getting all up-in-arms trying to get clemency for heroin smugglers in China or anywhere else that has a well publicised death sentence for trafficking isn't in my priority list. In my view, it's only those with an agenda who are fighting for this unworthy cause. Looking between the lines for racism or using this to put political pressure on China is just using a bad example for the wrong cause.


I realize drug smuggling is a capital offense in some places and have no problem with that. China should be able to make whatever laws it wants. My problem is that this was not a fair trial and it's not cleat that this guy was either fit to stand trial or guilty of the offense. ANY human deserves more than 30 minutes in front of a kangeroo before being put to death.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:23 pm
 


In a western democracy, you get more than 30 minutes. This is China and that guy knew where he was going to, regardless of his state of mind. This was $1,000,000 worth of heroin, not a few joints.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:27 pm
 


EyeBrock wrote:
In a western democracy, you get more than 30 minutes. This is China and that guy knew where he was going to, regardless of his state of mind. This was $1,000,000 worth of heroin, not a few joints.


30 minutes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:59 am
 


It's their system Lemmy. Everybody seems quite happy to ignore human rights as long as we can buy cheap stuff.
It's still a communist dictatorship. Everybody knows that.

Previous Canadian governments going back to Truduea have fawned over the Chinese.

Harper was truly slagged off in the media for his less than enthuiastic approach to China, and by many in this forum, some of whom are now decrying the execution of this British drug trafficker.

You can't have it both ways.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:41 am
 


Lemmy wrote:
EyeBrock wrote:
In a western democracy, you get more than 30 minutes. This is China and that guy knew where he was going to, regardless of his state of mind. This was $1,000,000 worth of heroin, not a few joints.


30 minutes.


Understood.

However, it is a very well known fact that China is not renowned for a transparent and progressive justice system.

One cannot opt to ignore Chinese law and not expect swift and harsh punishment. I just don't buy it. Shy of gunboat diplomacy, the government of Britain did what it could for a citizen that knowingly smuggled in a significant amount of drugs into a country with a regime that offers very harsh punishment for it.

Eyes wide open in this case.


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