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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:03 pm
 


ridenrain wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
Not doing so in essence means you condone the death penalty, which most Canadians do not.


I question that.

The US recently put away the Canadian leader of the Red Scorpion drug gang for 30 years. I doubt he would have been in jail for 10 in Canada. In China they would definately have killed him.

Since there is such a huge difference in sentance for the same crime, why do we assume we are correct.


In the past, when Canadian governments have petitioned foreign ones to let Canadians serve their crimes in our prisons (any sane criminal would far prefer a Canadian prison - even maximum security - to a Chinese/Turkish/Thai/etc prison) it was usually with the condition that the sentence to be served would be the same as it were the country they were charged in (excepting the death penalty of course).

What's the problem with that? They still serve the same sentence, but under far less brutal conditions. There's no reason to subject people to Turkish prisons IMHO. Now, a term in a Canadian military prison would likely stop chronic re-offenders.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:12 pm
 


So what would this drug dealer have got for a sentance in Canada?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:31 pm
 


an apology and a settlement.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:36 pm
 


ridenrain wrote:
So what would this drug dealer have got for a sentance in Canada?


Had he been a Canadian, and had our current government been willing to negotiate with the Chinese (highly unlikely given Harper's stance on cases such as this one ), he probably would have gotten life (or something similar).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:02 pm
 


bootlegga wrote:
ridenrain wrote:
So what would this drug dealer have got for a sentance in Canada?


Had he been a Canadian, and had our current government been willing to negotiate with the Chinese (highly unlikely given Harper's stance on cases such as this one ), he probably would have gotten life (or something similar).



So if a foreigner comes to Canada, and violates one of our laws, in your opinion, should they be sentenced according to our laws or the laws of their country of origin? Keep in mind that in some countries it is lawful for grown men to have sex with young girls, for husbands to beat their wives, and in some cultures even murder (family honor) is ok! Should Canada then sentence according to what the offenders Govt. wants? Or, should Canada tell the 'interferring Govt.' to 'piss off'?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:40 pm
 


Yogi wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
ridenrain wrote:
So what would this drug dealer have got for a sentance in Canada?


Had he been a Canadian, and had our current government been willing to negotiate with the Chinese (highly unlikely given Harper's stance on cases such as this one ), he probably would have gotten life (or something similar).



So if a foreigner comes to Canada, and violates one of our laws, in your opinion, should they be sentenced according to our laws or the laws of their country of origin? Keep in mind that in some countries it is lawful for grown men to have sex with young girls, for husbands to beat their wives, and in some cultures even murder (family honor) is ok! Should Canada then sentence according to what the offenders Govt. wants? Or, should Canada tell the 'interferring Govt.' to 'piss off'?


I never said any such thing...but you'd know that because you read all of my posts in this thread right? Yeah, didn't think so.

What I said was that our government should at least try to help Canadians who commit serious crimes abroad (like say murder in the USA) and try to repatriate them to serve their time in a Canadian prison. I'm not supporting in any shape or form that Canadians should be able to travel abroad and flout other nations laws, but that our government has a duty to protect Canadians. If that means putting someone serving time in a Chinese or Turkish (or anywhere else) prison while waiting to be executed in a Canadian prison for the rest of their lives (instead of letting another country execute them), then I'm fine with that.

Conversely, if a foreigner (pick your poison) comes here and rapes/robs/murders a Canadian, I would expect their government to at least try and negotiate a repatriation (with an agreement that they serve their time in a prison there).

Whether or not we agree to send them back is another issue altogether, but forgive me if I think any government has at least some small duty to help its citizens. If China or Iran or the UK or anyone else's doesn't that's an issue for its own citizens, but I'd like to think that the Canadian government would at least TRY to help any of us if something happened abroad. At the very least, a cursory examination of the trial and evidence is necessary. In the case of Canadians suffering in brutal 3rd world prisons, I'd say an effort should be made to get them back to serve out their sentences here. Most of the time, the effort fails, but it still should be made.

BTW, if you're going to jump into a conversation halfway, at least have the sense to go back a few pages and understand what is being talked about... :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:25 pm
 


I wonder how much racism played a role in this case. Sure, this guy is a British citizen, but he's clearly not a Briton. If he were a WASP named Smith, I strongly doubt he would have been executed.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:59 pm
 


We should send a great number of our most "progressive" judges to China to help them reach the enlightened state that we have. I'm sure they could lead a quest to find the root causes to the reasons behind drug addiction, or whatever BS PC crap they use to justify the shit they do.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:03 pm
 


ridenrain wrote:
We should send a great number of our most "progressive" judges to China to help them reach the enlightened state that we have. I'm sure they could lead a quest to find the root causes to the reasons behind drug addiction, or whatever BS PC crap they use to justify the shit they do.


Of course we could send your kind of judges but then even the Chinese would find them repressive in thought and scope.

Really you should try and make 2010 the year you shed yourself of your rampant racism and bigotry since China is your masters new BFF.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:18 pm
 


Lemmy wrote:
I wonder how much racism played a role in this case. Sure, this guy is a British citizen, but he's clearly not a Briton. If he were a WASP named Smith, I strongly doubt he would have been executed.


Chinese or British racism?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:22 pm
 


Wasn't this guy an ethnic Uighur?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:26 pm
 


EyeBrock wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
I wonder how much racism played a role in this case. Sure, this guy is a British citizen, but he's clearly not a Briton. If he were a WASP named Smith, I strongly doubt he would have been executed.


Chinese or British racism?


Good question....both? I don't know. I know nothing about the case or the customs between the UK and China...but when I heard this story on the TV news a few days ago, I was reading and not really paying attention to the lead-in to the story. Then, as I heard it, I focused in on the TV. My initial reaction, before seeing or hearing anything about the man, was: "There's no fucking way the UK will allow China to execute one of their citizens". I was picturing Mr. William Rose of Essex, who's father is the local highschool principal. Then I saw the dude's name and his picture and my gut reaction was "This guy is fucked".


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:33 pm
 


Nah, the Brits did as much as I would expect for a William Rose of Essex. The Chinese and Brits have a bad diplomatic relationship anyway.

Things got worse after Copenhagen when Brown called out the Chinese as the worlds biggest polluters.
They didn't like that. The official language from China has been very frosty. It wasn't a suprise that this guy was executed. A white Brit would have got the same for 4 kgs of heroin.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:38 pm
 


Damn that Boxer rebellion eh mate? :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:38 pm
 


How dare a gwai lo criticize the Middle Kingdom. You must now come to Beijing to pay homage and kowtow, begging for forgiveness.


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