CKA Forums
Login 
canadian forums
bottom
 
 
Canadian Forums

Author Topic Options
Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Vancouver Canucks
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 27585
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:53 am
 


Title: City of Vancouver calls for decriminalization of drug possession
Category: lifestyle
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2018-03-10 23:50:57
Canadian


Offline
Forum Elite
Forum Elite
 Pittsburgh Penguins
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 1558
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:53 am
 


And just how is that going to help? Really. Decriminlization could very well lead to yet more deaths, IMHO.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Montreal Canadiens
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 32938
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:27 am
 


They should decriminalize everything, and just get it over with. :P


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 8077
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:23 pm
 


Mowich wrote:
And just how is that going to help? Really. Decriminlization could very well lead to yet more deaths, IMHO.

Well for starters you'd be able to differentiate between people with a drug problem and criminals. Then you could treat them for it instead of putting them in jail.
I don't know how you figure it would lead to more overdoses instead of less.
??


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Calgary Flames
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25384

Warnings: (20%)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:29 pm
 


The overdoses will continue to happen at pretty much the same rate regardless of whether or not dercriminalization occurs. What decrim does is take the addicts out of the courts and jails, where they don't belong (unless they've committed an act of violence while stoned) and puts them in the health system where they can get some help hopefully. The real benefit is that it frees up the courts, jails, and police to concentrate on other things. And it saves money too, which should go to rehab facilities or some kind of housing where they can get high indoors where it's safe instead of out on the streets.

The benefits are obvious if enough people can be bothered to look at addiction as a massive mental health problem instead of a moral failing of a bunch of "losers" for the self-righteous and Austerity Heroes to look down their noses at.


Offline
CKA Moderator
CKA Moderator
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 27803
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:01 am
 


^^

R=UP


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 7695
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:49 am
 


Thanos wrote:
The overdoses will continue to happen at pretty much the same rate regardless of whether or not dercriminalization occurs. What decrim does is take the addicts out of the courts and jails, where they don't belong (unless they've committed an act of violence while stoned) and puts them in the health system where they can get some help hopefully. The real benefit is that it frees up the courts, jails, and police to concentrate on other things. And it saves money too, which should go to rehab facilities or some kind of housing where they can get high indoors where it's safe instead of out on the streets.

The benefits are obvious if enough people can be bothered to look at addiction as a massive mental health problem instead of a moral failing of a bunch of "losers" for the self-righteous and Austerity Heroes to look down their noses at.

Well said


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 12190
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:27 am
 


herbie wrote:
Mowich wrote:
And just how is that going to help? Really. Decriminlization could very well lead to yet more deaths, IMHO.

Well for starters you'd be able to differentiate between people with a drug problem and criminals. Then you could treat them for it instead of putting them in jail.
I don't know how you figure it would lead to more overdoses instead of less.
??



When was the last time you heard of a drug addict being put in jail? Dealers sometimes, addicts almost never. All levels of Gov't, the police, health care and social services have pretty much made "all" drugs legal with their lax attitude towards the problem and assistance in keeping these people addicted.

Think about it. These addicts get free needles, shooting galleries, free Naloxone kits when they fuck up, free drug testing, free health care and now more and more free places to carry on with their illegal and self destructive behavior.

Face it, the only way to stop this epidemic of drug abuse is to stop treating it pseudo health care issue because it isn't. It's about control, jobs and money for the enablers. So, the only way the insanity ends is if they stop treating addiction as a growth industry in which every organization involved seems to always be demanding, more money to fix the problem, more personnel to deal with the problem and more autonomy from any scrutiny by honest brokers because it isn't working.

They need to quit the bullshit about the costs of rehab for these people because if managed properly, it can't cost anywhere near as much as, health care, police services, emergency services, social services and gov't services being ineffectively thrown at this issue.

First the system has to find, catalog and differentiate between the mentally ill and the drug addicted because there's a big difference. Then, when they've done that they have to reopen the mental health facilities for the people who need the help they aren't getting now while still opening treatment centers for all the addicted people who fall into "poor choice" group.

Then they must create employment and job placement programs for the people who successfully finish rehab and can become beneficial members of society again. These jobs don't have to be high paying jobs but they have to be jobs that pay enough to keep a roof over someones head and give them a chance at a future if they want it. There also has to be some form of education programs for these people so they can advance in life if they choose to.

But, if these addicts continue to relapse after a set number of tries at rehab then, it becomes a matter of putting them in the institutions with the mentally ill because, anyone without the ability to break their addiction will never contribute to society so, leaving them on the streets becomes a public safety issue. Besides institutionalizing them means they can get the proper drugs and keep everyone one safe, themselves included and if at some point they manage to kick their addiction with or without special drugs they can be released into an outreach program that includes training and job placement.

To put it mildly, they need to stop enabling these people under the guise of compassion because even the non Rhodes scholars in the crowd can see that method of drug treatment is causing more issues than it's fixing.

My guess is if they fired alot of the non essential people who are working with addiction services and spent that money on detox, counselling, and building rental for rehab the chances of these people getting off of drugs would be exponentially better than it is by even decriminalizing drugs and allowing them to continue their downward spiral.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 8077
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:16 pm
 


Quote:
Think about it. These addicts get free needles, shooting galleries, free Naloxone kits when they fuck up, free drug testing, free health care and now more and more free places to carry on with their illegal and self destructive behavior.

Face it, the only way to stop this epidemic of drug abuse is to stop treating it pseudo health care issue because it isn't. It's about control, jobs and money for the enablers


Granma's not cooking her pain meds up in a spoon in some downtown eastside safe injection site. This is exactly WHY the new approach is needed. Drug addiction is mentioned and what you see is dirty back alley untermensch sticking needles in their arms as a of free choice. Over 1400 people died in BC from overdoses last year, feel free to wander down there and count them, there aren't 1400 people in the back alleys.

Were you opposed to tax money being 'wasted' passing out free condoms during the HIV crisis? To MSP money being used to provide anti-smoking products and services? You're actually denying addiction is not a public health problem?
It took over a decade to figure out alcohol prohibition didn't work, over 50 to realize marijuana prohibition didn't work, how long will it take to admit the legal system just hasn't worked?


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 12190
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:28 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Quote:
Think about it. These addicts get free needles, shooting galleries, free Naloxone kits when they fuck up, free drug testing, free health care and now more and more free places to carry on with their illegal and self destructive behavior.

Face it, the only way to stop this epidemic of drug abuse is to stop treating it pseudo health care issue because it isn't. It's about control, jobs and money for the enablers


Granma's not cooking her pain meds up in a spoon in some downtown eastside safe injection site. This is exactly WHY the new approach is needed. Drug addiction is mentioned and what you see is dirty back alley untermensch sticking needles in their arms as a of free choice. Over 1400 people died in BC from overdoses last year, feel free to wander down there and count them, there aren't 1400 people in the back alleys.

Were you opposed to tax money being 'wasted' passing out free condoms during the HIV crisis? To MSP money being used to provide anti-smoking products and services? You're actually denying addiction is not a public health problem?
It took over a decade to figure out alcohol prohibition didn't work, over 50 to realize marijuana prohibition didn't work, how long will it take to admit the legal system just hasn't worked?


Addiction is only a public health issue based on what it costs the system especially since that system has created a growth industry for itself with no real attempt to alleviate the problem because, to do so would break the cycle and cost jobs.

But since you're using analogy's to smoking and aids could you please tell me how many tries at the free anti smoking products people got because it sure as hell wasn't unlimited like the free needles? As for condoms. How many people got aids because they wanted it? I'm sorry but drug addiction for anyone without a mental health issue and who was kicked out of the now closed institutions was a choice, an extremely bad one but still a choice, just like smoking or abusing alcohol which means that we should either find a way to treat them or if they don't want to try and get back into society, lock them up.

The sad reality is that these people have become a hazard to themselves and society, so enabling them to continue their destructive behavior makes no sense what so ever and decriminalizing their actions is nothing more than a feel good solution which won't make one bit of difference. It's quite apparent that all the illegal actions which the authorities, drug users and others now take to help keep these people addicted with no real chance at redemption have made any claim of decriminalization helping the addicts ludicrous.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 8077
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:03 pm
 


If you're going to entirely make up some scenario to justify your opinion, it doesn't strengthen it, it weakens it. You don't understand that once the addiction kicks in they lost their freedom of choice and it's one hell of a process to help them regain it. You seem to be saying they'e not worth the effort so we shouldn't be trying.


Offline
CKA Super Elite
CKA Super Elite
 Washington Capitals
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 8442
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:23 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
The overdoses will continue to happen at pretty much the same rate regardless of whether or not dercriminalization occurs. What decrim does is take the addicts out of the courts and jails, where they don't belong (unless they've committed an act of violence while stoned) and puts them in the health system where they can get some help hopefully. The real benefit is that it frees up the courts, jails, and police to concentrate on other things. And it saves money too, which should go to rehab facilities or some kind of housing where they can get high indoors where it's safe instead of out on the streets.

The benefits are obvious if enough people can be bothered to look at addiction as a massive mental health problem instead of a moral failing of a bunch of "losers" for the self-righteous and Austerity Heroes to look down their noses at.

Alcoholism is a bigger problem than drug addiction but society has demonised one worse than the other.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 12054

Warnings: (20%)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:32 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
The overdoses will continue to happen at pretty much the same rate regardless of whether or not dercriminalization occurs. What decrim does is take the addicts out of the courts and jails, where they don't belong (unless they've committed an act of violence while stoned) and puts them in the health system where they can get some help hopefully. The real benefit is that it frees up the courts, jails, and police to concentrate on other things. And it saves money too, which should go to rehab facilities or some kind of housing where they can get high indoors where it's safe instead of out on the streets.

The benefits are obvious if enough people can be bothered to look at addiction as a massive mental health problem instead of a moral failing of a bunch of "losers" for the self-righteous and Austerity Heroes to look down their noses at.


Well said!


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber


GROUP_AVATAR
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 12190
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:52 am
 


herbie wrote:
If you're going to entirely make up some scenario to justify your opinion, it doesn't strengthen it, it weakens it. You don't understand that once the addiction kicks in they lost their freedom of choice and it's one hell of a process to help them regain it. You seem to be saying they'e not worth the effort so we shouldn't be trying.


Not at all. What I'm saying is that given the lax attitude now being displayed towards enforcement and treatment, "decriminalizing all drugs" is nothing more than a feel good edict from a bunch of do-gooders without a real desire to fix the problem.

So, until we fix the people we can't fix the problem and any magic bullet fixes from the industry that doesn't include treatment beds, support and mental health facilities should be considered suspect because the people who have the most to gain from these peoples suffering is the addiction industry.

But, here's a thought about the benefits of having addicts for some people. A friend of mine subscribes to one of those American scientific journals and one of the articles in it stated that science had actually found a medical compound which, if taken by people would stop addictive behaviour. According to the article though, it will never be manufactured because, the pharmacy companies who hold the patent would lose billions in revenue without addicts to faux treat. Don't believe me just google, "A pill to stop addictions" and you'll see that there are literally hundreds of pills that are used in fighting addiction none of which seems to be very effective.

And just so you don't think I've lost my mind I'll try and get the article from him so I can post it and everyone can read it because, it claims it works for "all" addictions not just drugs or alcohol.


Offline
CKA Uber
CKA Uber
 Calgary Flames
User avatar
Profile
Posts: 25384

Warnings: (20%)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:01 pm
 


There is no social or legal "fix" to be had, not as long as people are willing to search out illegal drugs for their recreational enjoyment or to numb their physical, mental, and emotional pain. What is clear is that moral scolding by governments (from politicians and bureaucrats who are the absolute last ones to be seen as morally superior to anyone else) has been an abysmal failure and the era of state interference in personal choices of inebriating substances should come to an end sooner rather than later.


Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  1  2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests




 
     
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © Canadaka.net. Powered by © phpBB.