Those who deny man's impact on the global envirnoment are like a guy who jumps off the 90th floor of a skyscraper and announces "All's well" as he passes the 50th floor on the way down. Resource management is not a leftist crackpot conspiracy. It's sound economic planning.
But if you want to talk about manipulating data to serve a bias, Stemmer, let's see some more of your data proving how Toyota vehicles are of poorer quality than North American brands.
PublicAnimalNo9
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 8656
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:59 am
If this were a truly serious issue, then governments would be working hard to figure out a way to reduce our dependence on non-renewable energy sources instead of working hard to find ways to tax us for something EVERYBODY needs and uses.
This is similar to Y2K. I first heard about Y2K in the very early '90s. The only concern then was for date sensative documents. After a while, the alarmists, egged on by the computer and software industries had a good portion of the world believing that nothing short of total disaster was going to happen. The computer/software industry made BILLIONS from this little scam, albeit that scam provided the money for the R&D to provide us with a superior product.
The global warming nonsense is just that. Yes, world temperatures cycle up and down quite naturally. Been doing so loooooong before mankind showed up.
This scam is nothing more than a way to help pay for emerging industrial nations to continue using these energy sources, by taxing us for using the same sources so we can feel good about "doing something". Kinda funny how we are doing business with China and want to increase business with India, 2 countries with hugely high pollution rates in their industrialized sectors, with little to no pollution controls. Great logic that.
Gunnair
CKA Uber
Posts: 12319
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:11 pm
Quote:
PublicAnimalNo9 - If this were a truly serious issue, then governments would be working hard to figure out a way to reduce our dependence on non-renewable energy sources instead of working hard to find ways to tax us for something EVERYBODY needs and uses.
Governements are worried about the moment because power tends to be for short term durations. Treating climate change calls for some very painful and controvercial decsisons that do not tend to lend themselves to political gain and power retention.
Quote:
This is similar to Y2K. I first heard about Y2K in the very early '90s. The only concern then was for date sensative documents. After a while, the alarmists, egged on by the computer and software industries had a good portion of the world believing that nothing short of total disaster was going to happen. The computer/software industry made BILLIONS from this little scam, albeit that scam provided the money for the R&D to provide us with a superior product.
The global warming nonsense is just that. Yes, world temperatures cycle up and down quite naturally. Been doing so loooooong before mankind showed up.
No one debates that climates change. They debate the effect of human activity on it.
Quote:
This scam is nothing more than a way to help pay for emerging industrial nations to continue using these energy sources, by taxing us for using the same sources so we can feel good about "doing something". Kinda funny how we are doing business with China and want to increase business with India, 2 countries with hugely high pollution rates in their industrialized sectors, with little to no pollution controls. Great logic that
That hardly makes sense unless you are suggesting its's a corporate conspiracy. Lack of oil resourses in 1st world countries has caused a lot of economic angst. Why would we want to pay for developing countries to build up and use more of a limited resource and thereby limit our use?
Me thinks your theory is unsound.
N_Fiddledog
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2819
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:42 pm
Hyack wrote:
Damn, I'm glad they got this cleared up, now the permafrost can refreeze, the polar ice caps will regrow and all the shrinking glaciers will grow back to the size they were 50 years ago. Man is this ever a weight off my mind.
It's already happening. In fact the globe has been cooling since 2002. There has been no warming of sea temperatures over the last 5 years, and maybe a slight cooling. The Antarctic ice never was shrinking over all (at least not in the last 30 year trend), and last year it was at record growth. The Arctic ice cap has made a record leap in growth since 2007. Satellite measurements have shown ice thickening. Sea level rise has evened out since 2006. Last year glaciers in Alaska, and elsewhere either stopped receding, or started advancing. Some measurements put Greenland on that list.
Last edited by N_Fiddledog on Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:13 pm, edited 4 times in total.
N_Fiddledog
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2819
Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:02 pm
There's an updating list of climategate stories...
Phil Jones is the guy who adjusts the HadCru global temperature data. Hadcru is the temperature data much of the IPCC report is based on.
Recently, under tremendous pressure to release the original, unadjusted data Jones announced it had been destroyed. This after years of simply refusing to release it.
Quote:
The warmist conspiracy: the emails that most damn Jones
Andrew Bolt Saturday, November 21, 2009 at 12:19pm
These are the emails that should have Professor Phil Jones most worried about his future.
Jones, head of the CRU unit whose emails were leaked, has been under most fire so far over one email in particular in which he boasted of using a ‘“trick" to “hide the decline” that would have otherwise spoiled his graph showing temperatures soaring ever-upward.
But far more serious - at least in a legal sense - may be his apparent boasting of destroying data to stop sceptics from checking this alarmist work. If, as some emails suggest, he destroyed it to thwart FOI requests from Professor Ross McKitrick and Steve McIntyre, who’d already exposed as fake the Michael Mann “hockey stick”, Jones, one of the most active of the IPCC lead authors, could even face criminal charges.
(Note: in saying that, I should add that these emails may simply be poorly worded, out of context or even altered by the whistleblower who leaked them. Jones may also not knowingly have done anything wrong, and there is no proof that he did anything against the law. UPDATE: Several updates on Jones below, including his “selfish” wish to see global warming “regardless of the consequences” just to be proved right.)
Whether laws were broken or not, the emails prove beyond doubt how resistant Jones and his colleagues were to having their work properly scrutinised by anyone not of their “team”. No wonder, perhaps, when the documents reveal Jones has so far attracted $25 million in grants.)
The most damning emails on this point are the following, starting with 1107454306.txt, in which Jones refers to MM - McIntyre and McKitrick (bold added):
No one debates that climates change. They debate the effect of human activity on it.
Quote:
This scam is nothing more than a way to help pay for emerging industrial nations to continue using these energy sources, by taxing us for using the same sources so we can feel good about "doing something". Kinda funny how we are doing business with China and want to increase business with India, 2 countries with hugely high pollution rates in their industrialized sectors, with little to no pollution controls. Great logic that
That hardly makes sense unless you are suggesting its's a corporate conspiracy. Lack of oil resourses in 1st world countries has caused a lot of economic angst. Why would we want to pay for developing countries to build up and use more of a limited resource and thereby limit our use?
Me thinks your theory is unsound.
Because as a society, we want cheaper products. Tell me, what could India possibly have to offer Canada except cheaper products and immigrants? Canada is far from suffering a shortage of natural resources. And in the emerging industrial countries it's coal and hydro that power them, not just oil. You have to ask yourself, why hasn't this country done more to try and reduce the dependence on the power grid for homes and small apartments? Hell we even still have coal fired power plants. For eg, solar power. This technology will not likely prove effective for industrial use and it probably won't eliminate the need for homes to be on the grid, BUT, it WILL reduce the dependency on hydro, thus helping to cut down on hydrocarbon emissions in areas where power plants are fired with fossil fuels. The viablity of that technology really isn't very far away. But the government don't like that idea because they can't tax you for hydro usage if yer not using any from the grid. Imagine if even half the fossil fuel powered power stations could be shut down if affordable and efficient solar technology were available. Of course the powers that be are shooting for wind power but that presents its own set of problems. The huge tracts of land required for viable wind farms will be astounding. It will also do nothing for reducing the dependency on the grid so the government will still be able to tax us for hydro usage. Unless you got a few million dollars collecting dust to invest in yer own personal wind farm.
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