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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:34 pm
 


Title: Contractors buying from Home Depot, other retailers beware � the CRA is coming after you
Category: Business
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2019-11-06 11:46:15
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:34 pm
 


If this has been going on since 92 why the sudden urge to suddenly catch all these scofflaws.

Oh wait, let me guess. The gov't needs money and who better to go after than some contractor working out of the back of a cube van who, already pays a kings ransom to places like Home Depot and Lowe's just to have the privilege of working under their lofty banners.

Besides, you wouldn't want to go after the real tax cheats who have all those pesky offshore tax shelters and lawyers. People, like your friends SNC lavalin, the Irivings, McCains, the Westons or Jim Pattison.

When the CRA goes after those tax cheats and actually get them to pay their share of taxes then I'll be in favour of going after the little guy. Until then the Gov't can go fuck themselves because people need to eat and given we're paying more in taxes than for anything else in our lives this is nothing more than the gov't deflecting from the real problem.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:41 pm
 


A tax cheat is a tax cheat.

You claim to he such a moral person yet here you are complaining that the government has the audacity to enforce the law against people who are deliberately breaking it while you and I and most everyone else obeys it.

Also I don’t know where you got the idea that the CRA isn’t going after wealthy tax cheats. Did you know the CRA has a dedicated “HNW” (High Net Worth) audit team? I mean you must’ve been blind to miss all the news after the Panama Papers were leaked A quick google will get you up to speed

Lastly just to point out a correction: this story isn’t about people who” pay Home Depot to work under their banner “. These aren’t contractors for HD. These are businesses who advertise handyman or other services to the public in the phone book, Craigslist, etc and tell their customers “no tax if you pay cash”. CRA is betting they have commercial customer accounts at places where they get supplies like Home Depot Get it?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:06 pm
 


Might also catch a bunch of people collecting welfare and unemployment benefits.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:08 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
A tax cheat is a tax cheat.

You claim to he such a moral person yet here you are complaining that the government has the audacity to enforce the law against people who are deliberately breaking it while you and I and most everyone else obeys it.

Also I don’t know where you got the idea that the CRA isn’t going after wealthy tax cheats. Did you know the CRA has a dedicated “HNW” (High Net Worth) audit team? I mean you must’ve been blind to miss all the news after the Panama Papers were leaked A quick google will get you up to speed

Lastly just to point out a correction: this story isn’t about people who” pay Home Depot to work under their banner “. These aren’t contractors for HD. These are businesses who advertise handyman or other services to the public in the phone book, Craigslist, etc and tell their customers “no tax if you pay cash”. CRA is betting they have commercial customer accounts at places where they get supplies like Home Depot Get it?


I don't claim anything but you've got to admit that it's utter bullshit that the gov't is going after the little guy while the biggest tax cheats and corporate welfare bums are still running around free and clear.

And, if you don't believe it, name me how many people have been charged in Canada because of the Panama Papers?

Quote:
CRA has identified nearly 900 Canadians in huge leak of tax-haven records, but no charges laid.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/panama ... -1.5082058

That's right, none. They've recovered some money but not anywhere near what's out there and owed. So basically it's an exercise in making the CRA look good with no real deterrent to these wealthy rich people like the ones I named.

I'll take your word for it but, I have never in all my life seen one ad in Craigslist or other work seeking publication that offered "no tax if you pay cash" because only and idiot would invite that kind of scrutiny and yes, I do know that some smaller contractors will cut you some slack if you pay cash. Oh and for the record the CRA investigation includes the Home Depot and Lowe's contractors because each and every one of them is an independent, who are not employees of the chains so, after they pay those mega stores their commission for getting them the work, they get to keep what profit is left. A fact which means that they're exactly the same as the guy who buys his materials there and then goes out on his own.

I will agree with you on one thing. Everybody should pay FAIR taxes if you make money in Canada. What I don't agree with is the fact that there is a group in Canada including one former Prime Minister who, because of their wealth have been allowed to use tax loopholes or blatantly break the law to hide their wealth offshore while the CRA turns a blind eye and has for decades.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:29 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
A tax cheat is a tax cheat.

You claim to he such a moral person yet here you are complaining that the government has the audacity to enforce the law against people who are deliberately breaking it while you and I and most everyone else obeys it.

Also I don’t know where you got the idea that the CRA isn’t going after wealthy tax cheats. Did you know the CRA has a dedicated “HNW” (High Net Worth) audit team? I mean you must’ve been blind to miss all the news after the Panama Papers were leaked A quick google will get you up to speed


In fairness, CRA could have done a far better job going after that Isle of Man scam run by KPMG. I can hardly bear to read this example from the sorry saga:

Quote:
The Canada Revenue Agency has once again made a secret out-of-court settlement with wealthy KPMG clients caught using what the CRA itself had alleged was a "grossly negligent" offshore "sham" set up to avoid detection by tax authorities, CBC's The Fifth Estate and Radio-Canada's Enquête have learned.

This, despite the Liberal government's vow to crack down on high-net-worth taxpayers who used the now-infamous Isle of Man scheme. The scheme orchestrated by accounting giant KPMG enabled clients to dodge tens of millions of dollars in taxes in Canada by making it look as if multimillionaires had given away their fortunes to anonymous overseas shell companies and get their investment income back as tax-free gifts.

KPMG is a global network of accounting and auditing firms headquartered out of the Netherlands and is one of the top firms in Canada.

"Tax cheats can no longer hide," National Revenue Minister Diane Lebouthillier promised in 2017.

Now, Tax Court documents obtained by CBC News/Radio-Canada show two members of the Cooper family in Victoria, as well as the estate of the late patriarch Peter Cooper, reached an out-of-court settlement on May 24 over their involvement in the scheme.

Details of the settlement and even minutes of the meetings discussing it are under wraps. A CBC News/Radio-Canada reporter who showed up to one such meeting this spring left after realizing it was closed to the public.

Journalists discovered references to the final settlement agreement in Tax Court documents only by chance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cra-km ... -1.5154610


Something that really gets my goat is CRA saying that settling with these people is cost effective. They don’t factor in the damage to the entire system caused by such shenanigans. Such ‘completely legal’ chicanery makes all of us less likely to obey the law.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:03 pm
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
I don't claim anything but you've got to admit that it's utter bullshit that the gov't is going after the little guy while the biggest tax cheats and corporate welfare bums are still running around free and clear.

And, if you don't believe it, name me how many people have been charged in Canada because of the Panama Papers?

Quote:
CRA has identified nearly 900 Canadians in huge leak of tax-haven records, but no charges laid.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/panama ... -1.5082058

That's right, none. They've recovered some money but not anywhere near what's out there and owed. So basically it's an exercise in making the CRA look good with no real deterrent to these wealthy rich people like the ones I named.

I'll take your word for it but, I have never in all my life seen one ad in Craigslist or other work seeking publication that offered "no tax if you pay cash" because only and idiot would invite that kind of scrutiny and yes, I do know that some smaller contractors will cut you some slack if you pay cash. Oh and for the record the CRA investigation includes the Home Depot and Lowe's contractors because each and every one of them is an independent, who are not employees of the chains so, after they pay those mega stores their commission for getting them the work, they get to keep what profit is left. A fact which means that they're exactly the same as the guy who buys his materials there and then goes out on his own.

I will agree with you on one thing. Everybody should pay FAIR taxes if you make money in Canada. What I don't agree with is the fact that there is a group in Canada including one former Prime Minister who, because of their wealth have been allowed to use tax loopholes or blatantly break the law to hide their wealth offshore while the CRA turns a blind eye and has for decades.


Where does it any charges will be laid here? It just says people will be audited. As they should be. And as your Panama paper article says:

Quote:
So far, the CRA said Tuesday, it has completed 116 audits, resulting in $14.9 million in federal taxes and penalties assessed. Hundreds more audits are either underway or expected.


So I don’t see that these contractor tax cheats are being treated any differently. Nor do I agree with your assertion that the government should turn a blind eye to crime if it’s committed by a so-called “little guy” (and some of these contractors may not be so little)

Of course they don’t say “no tax” in their ads. They just tell you that part in person. What I’m trying to tell you is that these contractors are not contractors working for HD these are building contractors who who serve their own customers and their own businesses and who shop at HD using a commercial account. Some may incidentally also contract FOR HD I suppose but that’s clearly not the focus of the CRA.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:13 pm
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
If this has been going on since 92 why the sudden urge to suddenly catch all these scofflaws.


Because it's not your money. It's theirs. They merely let us hold onto it for a little while before they come to take their "rightful" share. Never forget who each and every one of us in this dopey country is really working for. Meet your real employer!

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Last edited by Thanos on Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:14 pm
 


Sunnyways wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
A tax cheat is a tax cheat.

You claim to he such a moral person yet here you are complaining that the government has the audacity to enforce the law against people who are deliberately breaking it while you and I and most everyone else obeys it.

Also I don’t know where you got the idea that the CRA isn’t going after wealthy tax cheats. Did you know the CRA has a dedicated “HNW” (High Net Worth) audit team? I mean you must’ve been blind to miss all the news after the Panama Papers were leaked A quick google will get you up to speed


In fairness, CRA could have done a far better job going after that Isle of Man scam run by KPMG. I can hardly bear to read this example from the sorry saga:

Quote:
The Canada Revenue Agency has once again made a secret out-of-court settlement with wealthy KPMG clients caught using what the CRA itself had alleged was a "grossly negligent" offshore "sham" set up to avoid detection by tax authorities, CBC's The Fifth Estate and Radio-Canada's Enquête have learned.

This, despite the Liberal government's vow to crack down on high-net-worth taxpayers who used the now-infamous Isle of Man scheme. The scheme orchestrated by accounting giant KPMG enabled clients to dodge tens of millions of dollars in taxes in Canada by making it look as if multimillionaires had given away their fortunes to anonymous overseas shell companies and get their investment income back as tax-free gifts.

KPMG is a global network of accounting and auditing firms headquartered out of the Netherlands and is one of the top firms in Canada.

"Tax cheats can no longer hide," National Revenue Minister Diane Lebouthillier promised in 2017.

Now, Tax Court documents obtained by CBC News/Radio-Canada show two members of the Cooper family in Victoria, as well as the estate of the late patriarch Peter Cooper, reached an out-of-court settlement on May 24 over their involvement in the scheme.

Details of the settlement and even minutes of the meetings discussing it are under wraps. A CBC News/Radio-Canada reporter who showed up to one such meeting this spring left after realizing it was closed to the public.

Journalists discovered references to the final settlement agreement in Tax Court documents only by chance.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cra-km ... -1.5154610


Something that really gets my goat is CRA saying that settling with these people is cost effective. They don’t factor in the damage to the entire system caused by such shenanigans. Such ‘completely legal’ chicanery makes all of us less likely to obey the law.



Yeah it would be nice if we locked them all up instead of settling but lawyers are expensive so CRA is being practical and trying to maximize their collection net of legal fees they have to pay to collect it. The tax cheats getting the settlement also have to pay huge legal bills of their own which you an I and most people could never afford, so that is presumably the deterrent I would like to see at least a few do jail time though.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:07 am
 


Sunnyways wrote:
Such ‘completely legal’ chicanery makes all of us less likely to obey the law.


It makes us little people who can't afford tax deferral lawyers and offshore tax havens and such more likely to obey the law.

But it's the very wealthy who wrote the laws allowing tax havens in the first place.

Back in Ancient Greece they knew Democracy would be the rule of the poor over the rich, because there were simply more poor people. But that was when Democracy was actually fair; one person, one vote, and legislators had to sell their businesses.

Once they started allowing for lobbyists and made political donations a right under 'free speech', that's when some of us became more equal than others. And the more equal people get to write the laws that keep them more equal, and expand that equality so they have more and more every year.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:22 am
 


The real tax cheats can afford lawyers.
The guy who fixed your stairs can't.
The CRA can collect $300 or seize tools or a truck for sure while that $10,000,000 fraud is just too hard to win.

As for the 'cheat is a cheat' BS, a shipwrecked person digging clams is a poacher too and Jean Valjean truly stole that loaf of bread.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:12 pm
 


herbie wrote:
The real tax cheats can afford lawyers.
The guy who fixed your stairs can't.
The CRA can collect $300 or seize tools or a truck for sure while that $10,000,000 fraud is just too hard to win.

As for the 'cheat is a cheat' BS, a shipwrecked person digging clams is a poacher too and Jean Valjean truly stole that loaf of bread.


These contractors are hardly shipwrecked sailors or Jean Valjeans who can only afford to survive if they cheat on their taxes. Some actually do quite well for themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:01 am
 


BeaverFever wrote:
herbie wrote:
The real tax cheats can afford lawyers.
The guy who fixed your stairs can't.
The CRA can collect $300 or seize tools or a truck for sure while that $10,000,000 fraud is just too hard to win.

As for the 'cheat is a cheat' BS, a shipwrecked person digging clams is a poacher too and Jean Valjean truly stole that loaf of bread.


These contractors are hardly shipwrecked sailors or Jean Valjeans who can only afford to survive if they cheat on their taxes. Some actually do quite well for themselves.


But your argument about costs makes a mockery of equality before the law. Seriously wealthy people and their many enablers in politics, law, accountancy and even CRA itself know CRA will tap out and settle if they make the whole legal process too expensive for the government to carry to its proper conclusion. CRA’s primary mission on tax avoidance/avoision/evasion should be enforcing the law regardless of the wealth of the particular taxpayer involved, not turning a profit. Compromising with the fat cats only encourages them. Meanwhile we see CRA getting tough with people whom they know have little or no defence of this sort. It’s not right.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:22 am
 


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:52 am
 


Sunnyways wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:
herbie wrote:
The real tax cheats can afford lawyers.
The guy who fixed your stairs can't.
The CRA can collect $300 or seize tools or a truck for sure while that $10,000,000 fraud is just too hard to win.

As for the 'cheat is a cheat' BS, a shipwrecked person digging clams is a poacher too and Jean Valjean truly stole that loaf of bread.


These contractors are hardly shipwrecked sailors or Jean Valjeans who can only afford to survive if they cheat on their taxes. Some actually do quite well for themselves.


But your argument about costs makes a mockery of equality before the law. Seriously wealthy people and their many enablers in politics, law, accountancy and even CRA itself know CRA will tap out and settle if they make the whole legal process too expensive for the government to carry to its proper conclusion. CRA’s primary mission on tax avoidance/avoision/evasion should be enforcing the law regardless of the wealth of the particular taxpayer involved, not turning a profit. Compromising with the fat cats only encourages them. Meanwhile we see CRA getting tough with people whom they know have little or no defence of this sort. It’s not right.



Maybe but that’s how the legal system works. Even between private parties, most of the time the parties settle instead of fighting it out to the bitter end in order to limit their legal costs. It’s just how the world works.


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