[DrCaleb]

Coach85 Coach85:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Really, so when the Government came and took away kids from their parents, and gave them to other parents, you think some other random entity should be formed to try to figure out what happened, rather than the Government going through it's records to see what happened?

Is it because you don't understand what the 60's scoop was?

Take the emotion out of it and think of this logically.

You can request the documents on your own, but with multiple Counties, States, and Provinces involved, there just isn't a government agency that can handle these types of tasks.Furthermore, lots of the data is missing.

I usually do forsake emotion for logic.

You could try to make FOIP requests, but they will be denied on the grounds they contain personal information. If your Provincial Child Welfare or Adoptions agency was involved, you might be able put in requests for information through them (if you knew you were adopted) . But the vast majority were part of the Residential School program, which was Federal.

But the question hasn't changed. Why should someone separated from their family have to do all the leg work, when Governments are the ones responsible? Why doesn't the Federal and Provincial governments gather all this information in one place, and make it available or even contact people who are in these records? People might not even know they came from a Treaty 1 family, because they were adopted to Mr. And Mrs. Smith in Pensacola Florida. Not having all the records is no excuse for not dealing with the ones they do have.

It's the fault of all levels of government, they should fix it.

[Zipperfish]

Coach85 Coach85:

You don't understand much.

Who said anything about the police? Finding relatives that you've lost contact with, for whatever reason, isn't their job either.

You do know the police are part of the government, don't you? Maybe not. And, yes, finding missing persons is indeed something the police do quite regularly, particularly if there is suspected violence against a child.

$1:

Asking the government for help, as in the Provincial and Federal Government, when they don't have the resources do so, is pointless.

It was Canada who took Cleo from her family. It was Canada who sent her to Arkansas. When Canada takes a child from her home, they assume responsibility for that child. That's the law. Saying "not my problem" or "sorry we don't have the resources right now" or "we can't seem to find the records" does not absolve the government of that responsibility, particularly if it is suspected that a child has been killed.

[Coach85]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

But the question hasn't changed. Why should someone separated from their family have to do all the leg work, when Governments are the ones responsible? Why doesn't the Federal and Provincial governments gather all this information in one place, and make it available or even contact people who are in these records? People might not even know they came from a Treaty 1 family, because they were adopted to Mr. And Mrs. Smith in Pensacola Florida. Not having all the records is no excuse for not dealing with the ones they do have.

It's the fault of all levels of government, they should fix it.

If it's that important to you, can't you do the legwork on your own? Do we need to create another bureaucracy to work on this?

If people want, they can request the records and if they have them, they will be provided. They aren't being stonewalled.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

You do know the police are part of the government, don't you? Maybe not. And, yes, finding missing persons is indeed something the police do quite regularly, particularly if there is suspected violence against a child.

This is a Federal matter. Records lie with the Feds. That's who they're asking for help. Not the police.

This isn't a missing person's case. This was an adult that was separated from her family 45 years ago.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

It was Canada who took Cleo from her family. It was Canada who sent her to Arkansas. When Canada takes a child from her home, they assume responsibility for that child. That's the law. Saying "not my problem" or "sorry we don't have the resources right now" or "we can't seem to find the records" does not absolve the government of that responsibility, particularly if it is suspected that a child has been killed.

Yes, the government is responsible. However, if you're asking them to locate documents that don't exist or don't have access to, what's the point?

If finding your relative is so important to you, pick up the phone, get on the computer and start digging on your own with the information you have.

[Zipperfish]

Coach85 Coach85:

This is a Federal matter. Records lie with the Feds. That's who they're asking for help. Not the police.

This isn't a missing person's case. This was an adult that was separated from her family 45 years ago.

The evidence to date indicates that Cleo was abducted, raped and murdered, as a small child, trying to make her way back home from Arkansas where she was sent after become a ward of the state. That is very much a police issue. You seem to know that it's against the law to drive around somebody's farm causing mayhem, but seem iffy as to whether the rape and murder of indigenous child is a police matter. Why am I not surprised?

As Dr. Caleb said, several levels of government would have been involved. But the law is clear, when the government seizes a child and assumes custody, it assumes responsibility.

Coach85 Coach85:

Yes, the government is responsible. However, if you're asking them to locate documents that don't exist or don't have access to, what's the point?

If finding your relative is so important to you, pick up the phone, get on the computer and start digging on your own with the information you have.

"If finding your relative is so important"? Of course it's important. What do you mean "if." How would not finding what happened to your sister not be important to someone. Geez. The podcast isn't complete yet, but it seems the CBC has some strong evidence of what became of Cleo. So it may turn out that those documents did exist.

[Coach85]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

"If finding your relative is so important"? Of course it's important. What do you mean "if." How would not finding what happened to your sister not be important to someone. Geez. The podcast isn't complete yet, but it seems the CBC has some strong evidence of what became of Cleo. So it may turn out that those documents did exist.

Such an important issue, yet nothing was done in almost 50 years. Clearly, it was a pressing issue for the family.

[Zipperfish]

Coach85 Coach85:

Such an important issue, yet nothing was done in almost 50 years. Clearly, it was a pressing issue for the family.

Wouldn't it be pressing if it was your sister? Wouldn't you want answers? The entire family was thrown to the winds. Lost records, changed names, scattered across the continent. Runarounds from bureaucrats passing the buck. The only record of the life of this girl--the only record--is an updated photograph of her. The surviving siblings have been trying for most of their adult lives to find each other. Now they are trying to find out what happened to Cleo.

[Thanos]

If the police on the US side of the border never caught a perp then there's not much anyone in the Canadian police can do to solve it.

[Zipperfish]

Well the whole thing is off topic anyways. Just meant to point out that if you are native in this country, these are the kind of realities that you deal with. Your sister, seized by the government at 9, barely made it to 11 and, apparently, is found dead in a ditch, raped and murdered, and everybody's like "meh."

[Thanos]

And that, of course, makes our society equivalent to the one the Third Reich was operating in Poland and all white Canadian "settlers" perpetually guilty and hellbound for it.

[Coach85]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Well the whole thing is off topic anyways. Just meant to point out that if you are native in this country, these are the kind of realities that you deal with. Your sister, seized by the government at 9, barely made it to 11 and, apparently, is found dead in a ditch, raped and murdered, and everybody's like "meh."

You act like these crimes only happen to Native people. Where are your tears when other children or women are killed that aren’t Native?

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Coach85 Coach85:

Such an important issue, yet nothing was done in almost 50 years. Clearly, it was a pressing issue for the family.

Wouldn't it be pressing if it was your sister? Wouldn't you want answers? The entire family was thrown to the winds. Lost records, changed names, scattered across the continent. Runarounds from bureaucrats passing the buck. The only record of the life of this girl--the only record--is an updated photograph of her. The surviving siblings have been trying for most of their adult lives to find each other. Now they are trying to find out what happened to Cleo.

I would. However, I wouldn’t wait half a century and then blame my inaction on the government.

[BRAH]

There's the civil court system.

[PluggyRug]

A nice story of good role models.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ ... -1.4567270

[Zipperfish]

Coach85 Coach85:

You act like these crimes only happen to Native people. Where are your tears when other children or women are killed that aren’t Native?

The program was called AIM. As in Adopt Indian and Metis. So yes, that crime, by Canada, was specific to natives. Keep shit posting. Sooner or later you're bound to get something right.