[andyt]

BartSimpson wrote:

andyt wrote:

I thought about that as I was writing. But these days everybody and his dog has PTSD. If you got in a lifeboat, you probably didn't get severe enough trauma to get PTSD. Payment for PTSD should be based on stringent criteria. And, make some of that money only available for therapy - not some lump sum and the person goes off whistling.

I'll concur with that caveat on the award money.

Forgive me on this, but having seen troops with PTSD (and myself, to a far lesser extent) I know it to be a very real thing.

And this was a bunch of civilians in what was ostensibly a very relaxed situation and suddenly they're confronted with a very real and very dangerous life and death situation.

Troops are at least expecting bad things to happen and I believe that lessens the impact of PTSD somewhat. This was a boatload of people most of whom had probably lived their lives up to that point without experiencing a significant crisis. Then they're thrust into the same situation as a sailor in WW2 would have experienced after his ship was torpedoed. And without the training.

So, yeah, I think a number of them will come away from this more than a little screwed up.

I'm not taking anything away from soldiers in battle. And I think there's lots of people walking around with PTSD from childhood experiences that aren't diagnosed as such. I'm not saying it's not real, far from it.

But the label is also way too easily thrown around, especially when there's money to be made. I've been in several car accidents where I thought I might die (being ejected from a car going 50 mph was one). I don't have PTSD from it. I've been pulled down a mountain by an avalanche, or slid down one because it was icy. I don't have PTSD from it.

As far as being a sailor that's torpedoed - these people were close enough to shore that some could swim to it. They knew there wasn't an enemy that might take further action against them. I don't doubt they were scared. But somebody in a life boat I don't think qualifies for PTSD. Somebody who had to fight their way out of a flooded area, barely made it, that's something else.

Tell them all to eat 'shrooms. Apparently very effective at having people recall pleasant memories to replace negative ones (as research has shown). Must be a liberal drug. We should be much more exploring the use of psychedelics for psychological treatment. Grof did some great things with LSD before it was banned.

Supposedly neurofeedback is also effective in treating PTSD.

[BartSimpson]

The fact that there's 20-30 people dead in the aftermath of the wreck renders the ship's proximity to the shore irrelevant. It was a very dangerous and life-threatening situation brought on not by an accident on the freeway, but by a deliberately reckless act by a ship's captain and, potentially, the shipping line itself.

[andyt]

BartSimpson wrote:

The fact that there's 20-30 people dead in the aftermath of the wreck renders the ship's proximity to the shore irrelevant. It was a very dangerous and life-threatening situation brought on not by an accident on the freeway, but by a deliberately reckless act by a ship's captain and, potentially, the shipping line itself.

Irrelevant for PTSD. But certainly makes for a good argument in court.

And I guess I have to backpedal a bit - because this was caused by recklessness, I guess even people who were a bit scared and inconvenienced should get mo money. Maybe backpedal a bit further even - this isn't like that McDonald's award where people bring things on themselves, so I guess the passengers are entitled to squeeze every dime they can out of the situation.

I still think that real PTSD is demeaned/devalued/deminished by how it's misused in the courts.

[commanderkai]

DrCaleb wrote:

R=UP

You were travelling on a ship, over water. What did you think could happen?

Yeah I think people accept the ship can sink sometimes...not that the captain of the ship will purposely run it aground.

[andyt]

commanderkai wrote:

DrCaleb wrote:

R=UP

You were travelling on a ship, over water. What did you think could happen?

Yeah I think people accept the ship can sink sometimes...not that the captain of the ship will purposely run it aground.

I wouldn't think that either, and in this case he didn't.

Quote:

He walks on over to the First Mate.
He says "hey first mate what's that you smokin'?"
He says.. "that ain't nothin' but a little ol' cigarette captain"
n' he says "I don't believe it. Gimme a puff"
n' he says "alright."

So the captain takes himself a little puff. Nothin' happened right away.
He says "it's alright, it's alright. It's just a cigarette. I'm goin' for a walk" And that's what he did, folks. He went for a walk. He went.. he went out walkin' around the boat he went walkin' toward the wheelhouse he.. he walked around.

He walked around the wheelhouse once....... He walked around the wheelhouse twice....... On the third time around the wheelhouse....... The First Mate he looked on over at the Captain n'....... N' he say....... You wanna 'nother toke, Captain?...... And the Captain, he say....... RIGHT!!!!!!!!

So this time he's gonna tell the captain a little bit about this smoke that he's smokin'. He says "now the idea, Captain, the idea is to get this smoke way down deep inside your tummy n' hold it there just as long as you can it'll make you head feel good all inside. So the Captain says alright he takes himself three big tokes off that funny little brown weed n'
He says "I am commencing to hold it in!"

He walked around the wheelhouse.
He went downstairs
he laid down.
He get up he ran in the other room.
He sent a radiogram.
He came on back in.
He took a shower.
He come out.
He shaved.
He laid down.
He got up again.
He turned on the television.
He turned off the radio.
He played a game of cribbage.
He read his masked marvel comic book.
He walked thru the kitchen,
made a cup of tea,
made a cup of coffee,
sat down,
ate a piece of pie,
went upstairs,
played another game of cribbage,
went back in,
finished his other masked marvel comic book,
laid down,
he had the television, the radio, the egg beater, the air conditioner n'everything's all goin' at once. He walks up on deck and this is fifty two minutes later n' this cat ain't breathed yet!

So the First Mate see him standin' up there on the rail he's all puffed up like a balloon!
He says "ya gotta let it out, Captain!

So the Captain he let it all out at once.

Fallin' right down on the wheelhouse floor. He's out cold....


All of a sudden.... the Captain's eyes popped wide open. He stood right up straight..... Grabs a hold o' de wheel.... Looks on out at the bow o' dat boat n' he say "I'M GONNA MOVE YOU BABY!"

And he did right on into an iceberg n' she went right on down....


It was midnight on the sea,
the band was playin' "Nearer My God To Thee"
Fare thee well Titanic,
fare thee well.
Now he wouldn't let Jack Johnson on board
they said this ship don't haul no coal
Fare thee well Titanic,
fare thee well.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson wrote:

andyt wrote:

There should be no award for being scared. Replace possessions, refund ticket price, pay for hotels transportation as needed. Throw in some counseling sessions if they insist. But big awards should only go for real injuries.

PTSD is just as real an injury, and sometimes even worse, than any physical injury.

Odd that you should be the conservative here and me the liberal. (Taking a cue from the other topic on that subject).

Well, if you are saying that anyone on that ship now suffers from PTSD, that means that any victim of an accident caused by recklessness should be treated that way.

I think I am going to sue the guys that are supposed to keep the roads de-iced. I am scared to drive in the dark since my accident. Think I'm getting an award? Don't think so either.
And that while I can hardly avoid driving, or driving in the dark. You can definitely avoid getting on a cruise ship. As I have all my life. And will for the rest of it.

[Regina]

If you were flying Air Canada and it crashed landed, all you'd get would be some Aeroplan points that you can never use and expirer before you can use them. I bet this is just the opening offer, but I doubt it would go much higher for the people not hurt at all.