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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:57 pm
 


Title: CSIS destroyed secret file on Pierre Trudeau, stunning historians
Category: Misc CDN
Posted By: N_Fiddledog
Date: 2019-06-15 14:05:07
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:57 pm
 


https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/c ... ailsignout


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:03 pm
 


Probably best for the Liberals that this happened. Given Trudeau Sr's penchant for hanging out with the most chic and trendy foreign left-wing mass-murderers of the 1970's and 80's the dossier probably would have convincingly revealed that he was really just a filthy socialist himself. I don't doubt that in the late 1980's Mulroney would have loved to drop the dime on Trudeau and embarrass the hell out of the Libs. But given that the Cold War was still on it wouldn't have been worth the risk to national security and NATO to reveal it just to score domestic points against the "great man" here at home.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:14 pm
 


I'm sure they have a secret file on me.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:24 pm
 


What did you do raydan


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:41 pm
 


What didn't I do?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:51 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
Probably best for the Liberals that this happened. Given Trudeau Sr's penchant for hanging out with the most chic and trendy foreign left-wing mass-murderers of the 1970's and 80's the dossier probably would have convincingly revealed that he was really just a filthy socialist himself. I don't doubt that in the late 1980's Mulroney would have loved to drop the dime on Trudeau and embarrass the hell out of the Libs. But given that the Cold War was still on it wouldn't have been worth the risk to national security and NATO to reveal it just to score domestic points against the "great man" here at home.


What risk to national security ? The Berlin Wall came down in 89 and Russia couldn’t have given a flying fuck about Canada. The dossier probably had nothing except maybe the indiscretions and domestic troubles of Mr. and Mrs. Trudeau.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:51 pm
 


Old stuff but pertinent.


Pierre Trudeau has a long history of supporting dictators. Let us consider Trudeau's actions:

Trudeau admired Mao, stating that stating that Mao had delivered a "wonderful system to his people." Mao is one of the bloodiest killers in human history, responsible for tens of millions of deaths during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. Trudeau had no problem with this on his conscience and liberalized relations with China. According to R.J. Rummell, from 1949-1987, there were between 6.0 million to 102 million people killed by the Chinese government, with the best estimate at 35.2 million people murdered. Trudeau proclaimed "Viva Castro" in 1973. Castro is another butcher that Trudeau idolized. According to Rummell, Castro killed between 35,000 and 141,000 Cubans, with 73,000 being the most likely estimate. Trudeau shamefully allowed Cuban military transport planes to refuel in Newfoundland before resupplying themselves in the U.S.S.R.. From there, the Cuban soldiers were killing Angolans.Senator Link Byfield, in a September 30, 2000 Globe and Mail column, stated Trudeau "was once overheard by reporters remarking to Fidel Castro how much quicker and easier it would be to run things the Cuban way". Trudeau visited the Soviet Union several times, and each time praised it, whether it was oppressed under Stalin or Brezhnev. Trudeau infuriated many Soviet dissidents by praising the development of Siberia - which as anyone knows, was developed by the Soviets using gulag slave labor. Trudeau's intellectual inspiration while at the London School of Economics was Harold Laski, an apologist for Stalin. Trudeau is on the record in Cite Libre, praising Stalin's totalitarianism. As Rummel notes, the Soviet regime that Trudeau spoke fondly of killed between 28.326 million and 126.891 million people, with 61.911 million corpses being the most likely estimate.
Journalist Robert Fulford states "to Canada's eternal shame, Trudeau expressed sympathy with the venomous General Wojceich Jaruzelski when the general imposed martial law on Poland in 1981, banned Solidarity and arrested union leaders." Byfield states of Trudeau "He seemed to have the mind of a dictator, not a democrat."
Trudeau dressed as a German soldier and riding around Jewish suburbs of Montreal DURING WORLD WAR II (as reported by Mordecai Richler). While this does not imply that Trudeau was a Nazi - Trudeau's version of socialism differed from Hitler's - his actions were tasteless at best. Historian Esther Delisle noted that some of Quebec's elite supported Petain and the Vichy French during World War II. This adds further context to Trudeau's professed doubt that World War II was a just war.

In addition to the inhuman murderers above, he also praised and supported dictators like Mugabe, Nyerere and others.

Trudeau supported killers and dictators. He was not interested in freedom, justice or liberty.

Trudeau & His Economic Illiteracy

Trudeau's economic policy was a disaster. Small wonder, since he adored the Fabian socialist ideas of Harold Laski.

Let us list the economic results under Trudeau:
-The national debt rose 1,100% under Trudeau, from $18 billion when Trudeau took office in 1968, to a debt that stood at $200 billion in 1984. If comparisons to the U.S. and their deficit spending are made, the comparison should also take into the account that the U.S. wasted billions of dollars in VietNam. Canada did not. Trudeau's economic illiteracy combatted this by raising taxes and spending.
-Trudeau oversaw the worst peacetime inflation in Canadian history. $100 of goods in 1968, when Trudeau took office, would cost $324.09 in 1984, when he left office. That represents an annualized inflation rate of 7.63%. Trudeau's economic policy focused on the effect, rather than the cause, of inflation. He legislated wage and price controls. Not only is this a terrible policy from the standpoint of individual rights (since it denies the liberty of contract), but it is terrible economic policy. It destroys the signals that prices send to the economy. For example, the wage rates are high in Alberta ($25/hr to deliver pizzas in Calgary right now) because there is an excess of demand relative to the supply of labor. Then again, if Trudeau couldn't see the oceans of blood spilled by Stalin as his economic mentor Laski couldn't, why would we expect for him to see the effects of supply and demand?
-Unemployment nearly tripled under Trudeau, from just over 4% to peaking at around 12% to falling just above 11% before Trudeau exited. Trudeau's response? He raised unemployment benefits, which decreased the incentive to find work; increased taxes and regulations, which decresed the incentives to create jobs; gave greater power to the unions, which increased the stickiness of wage rate changes. The result was that Canadian unemployment rates significantly diverged from U.S. unemployment rates, based largely on Trudeauvian policies.
-Economic growth struggled in Canada under Trudeau. This is a combination of Trudeau's statist expansion of the government into the economy and his protectionist bent. His protectionist policies not only included the F.I.R.A., which killed investment into the energy industry in Alberta, but also included the adherence to the status quo favoritism given to Eastern manufacturers. A most famous example of Trudeau expanding the state into economy has to be the National Energy Program. The National Energy Program controled free market prices, which caused the energy industry to be devastated in Alberta. The economic growth in Alberta was destroyed. Albertan homeowners defaulted en masse as they became unemployed and the value of their homes decreased - all thanks to Trudeau and his N.E.P.

Trudeau was an economic illiterate. His policies saw debt and taxes rise, inflation rise, unemployment rise and economic growth falter; these results were the logical consequence of his illogical ideas. Trudeau the Pampered Elitist

Trudeau was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and evolved from spoiled child to professional student to world traveler on his father's dime. His spoiled childhood consisted of being driven to school by a chaffeur, and starting a childhood club with the moniker "Les Snobs." Before he became involved in federal politics, his career consistented of remaining separated from reality by working as an associate professor and working for labor unions in Quebec.

As Colby Cosh succintly and poignantly states:
"[M]aybe someone can explain to me what Trudeau's "successful career" outside of politics consisted of. As I understand it, he spent a lot of time swanning about the world on his father's chequebook, then eventually started doing legal and administrative work for Quebec labour unions.... in Quebec, labour unions are political institutions."

Let's not pretend that Trudeau was a self-made man that rose from the ashes of poverty. Unlike a Bill Clinton, he was born into wealth, and was raised utilizing his family's wealth. It is unarguable that that was his family's privilege. It is arguable whether this affected Trudeau in many ways, such as being connected to any sort of economic reality, or perhaps being an elitist.

Trudeau's understanding of economics is treated above. Was he an elitist? Undoubtedly. He was part of a childhood group called "Les Snobs." His political style consisted of avoiding the distasteful task of building consensus, but rather imposing his will on the public. He had no problem acting like a modern day Marie Antoinette, giving the finger to protesting masses while sitting in his private luxury rail car. His treatment of Alberta is entirely consistent with Trudeau's elitism - in this case, central Canada being the elite master. So was his execution of the official bilingualism, with French speakers granted a heightened status by fiat in any quest to become a civil servant. Trudeau mocked Lougheed by saying he "revealed his own ignorance" by not understanding how to market energy. Fact is, the Alberta economic flourished under Lougheed (until Trudeau intervened) and the Canadian economy struggled under Trudeau. Trudeau's attitude is nothing more than elitist claptrap. Perhaps the Kool-Aid drinking zombies West of Manitoba wouldn't be so hypnotized if they were talked down to as Albertans were.
Trudeau & the Charter of Rights

Trudeau is usually regarded as a great protector of individual rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. First, consider his imposition of martial law. Military rule is not what protectors of liberty and rights impose on their citizens.

Second, consider the company he kept: dictators. Trudeau cozied up to killers like Mao and Castro. Friendship with totalitarian dictators like Mao, Castro, Mugabe or Brezhnev is not consistent with defending the rights of citizens. Someone dedicated to preserving the rights of citizens would likely not ride around on his motorcycle dressed as a German soldier during World War II. Trudeau did, according to Mordecai Richler, and did so in Jewish areas.

Trudeau's "achievements" also included policies noted above such as the National Energy Program and Wage & Price Controls. At the nature of those programs is that the individual's freedom to trade voluntarily is denied. That is the exact opposite of protecting rights. In fact, several countries' constitutions protect voluntary trade between their citizens. Trudeau had no problems consistently abridging these rights.

Trudeau is given credit for liberalizing divorce laws and legalizing homosexuality. Note that this was done with Pearson as Prime Minister, so it was not Trudeau who was ultimately responsible for this policy. I have no problems with either action. Liberalizing divorce laws may or may not protect rights, depending on how it deals with contracts and the mutual consent of both parties. Legalizing a consensual act between two adults is a good thing, and is consistent with protecting rights. However, why wasn't Trudeau consistent with his rationale? "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation” is an absolutely accurate quote. But what if I wish to watch American television in my bedroom before retiring to bed? Trudeau limited our rights to do that. What if I wish to read non-Canadian magazines in my bedroom before reitring? Trudeau limited our rights to do that. What if I operate my home business from a desk in my bedroom? Trudeau limited our rights to do that. Trudeau simply favored a few rights, and ignored countless others.

What about the Charter of Rights? Again, it protects some rights, and does so inconsistently. But what it clearly does is expand the power of the judiciary, and give privileges to some groups at the expense of individual rights. The Charter of Rights does not protect the rights of Canadians. For example:
1. There are no property rights enshrined in the Constitution. This obvious omission made it possible to deprive citizens of their property without due process of law. This is a right that Americans have enshrined in their Consitution. Canadians have to rely on the common law to protect this right, and it can be negated by statute. Albertans, however, have legislation that protects property rights, but those rights are still subject to being dominated by the federal government.
2. The entire Constitution does not recognize rights of citizens and thusly lists limits on the government's power to infringe upon those rights. Rather, it grants permissions - "rights" that only exist because the government allows them. This is not a document that protects rights.
3. The preamble to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms infringes upon religious freedoms, namely by basing the Charter on the principle of the supremacy of God. Quite frankly, that is offensive as hell to 1/4 of Albertans who aren't religious. It is not consistent with the freedom to worship, which includes the liberty to not believe, as well as the right to believe in many gods.
4. The Charter of Rights limits rights subject to "limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." The raison d'etre for a Constitution or bill of rights is to limit the power of legislation. Legislation does not limit the rights in a Constitution. This clause simply opens up holes by which rights and liberties can be limited.
5. Mobility rights are limited by various laws that justify the transfer wealth to one group. Without this clause, the transfer payments that keep Alberta's labor force without adequate supplies of labor, while keeping other locales with much higher unemployment rates, might not be sustained. In any event, the rights of individuals are suborndinated to the interests of the collective.
6. Equality rights defend the concept except....when laws, programs or activities decide that people should not be treated as equal, and they can be treated unequally before the law based on race, national or ethnic origin, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability. Welcome to Canada, where you're equal, unless you aren't. This is a racist, sexist clause that simply favors some groups at the expense of individuals.

The Notwithstanding Clause is usually interpreted as something that gives the government the power to avoid certain legislation that expands rights. Given the nature of this document that does not protect rights, the Notwithstanding Clause can actually serve to protect rights. It simply depends on how it is enforced. Ideally, the Notwithstanding Clause could be used to renew federalism by limiting the power of the central government in favor of the regional governments. Unfortunately, that wasn't how it was written.

Let's not pretend that Trudeau was the great defender of rights because of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. He repatriated the Constitution in order to get a legacy. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect rights and liberties.


Trudeau's Effect on Unity

Trudeau is usually regarded as being a great Canadian patriot who kept Canada together. Let's examine the actual facts:
-The War Measures Act, while initially reducing membership in the Parti Quebecois, contributed to the Parti Quebecois rising from 7 seats prior to martial law to becoming the Official Opposition in 1973 to becoming the governing party in Quebec in 1976.
-Not getting Quebec's signature on the repatriation of the Constitution gives Quebec sovereigntists a pretext for claiming to be not part of Canada
-Increased centralization and abusive policies have isolated Alberta, Quebec, and to a lesser extent, the West.
-The costly imposition of Official Bilingualism has served to divide English and French Canada.
-The National Energy Program inspired the first secessionist MLA to be elected in Alberta, Gordon Kesler. It also caused the W.C.C. to gain over 11% of the popular vote

I fail to see how Trudeau benefitted unity. However, from my secessionist perspective, this is a good thing. Trudeaumania: Superficial or Cult of Personality?

Both!

Trudeau's initial popularity was based upon many superficial traits. Though some claim their excitement was based upon Trudeau's liberalizing divorce laws or legalizing homosexuality, these are not issues that generate fervor that Trudeaumania generated. I don't see women throwing their panties at Simon Wiesenthal.

Trudeau's lemming-like following was based on the superficialties of fashion, physical attraction and Trudeau's attitude. Trudeau had an appeal because he wore a rose on his lapel and would wear sandals in the House of Commons. What is more superficial than that? Perhaps that the balding, middle-aged, wiry Trudeau was somehow considered attractive? That's certainly superficial. But let us consider the facts: he was balding and middle-aged. I don't believe that is the usual standard of attractiveness for men. That's why the inclination has to be that Trudeaumania wasn't based on anything more than a cult of personality.

Trudeau's personality was a combination of arrogance, a conformist's faux rebellions and simple immaturity. I have no respect for the monarchy, but pirouhetting behind the Queen was simply childish. It was not playful, it was immature. Yet for all the glitz, Trudeau followed all dictums and traditions in order to repatriate the Constitution and took few concrete steps to eliminate the monarcy. Rebellion? Hardly. Wearing sandals in the House of Commons? Rebellious? It's simply a piece of clothing - Trudeau's action is no different than teenaged followers whose conformity is revealed by wearing loose jeans around their ass.

Unfortunately for Canadians, and especially Albertans, a pop culture phenomenon that should have lasted 15 minutes lingered for 15 years. Trudeau: Ripping Albertans Off After Death

The Trudeau Foundation quietly received $125 million from the Canadian government to fund itself. Appropriately, the Trudeau Foundation could not rely on private donations, but needed to rely on taxation. In death, Trudeau's ideas need to be forced on Canada's citizens, just as was the case during his life.

Here is the announcement by the Canadian government. Note that $125,000,000 is designed to fund up to 100 doctoral and post-doctoral students. Once again, the lack of even the most rudimentary economic knowledge is the characteristic of a Trudeauvian institution. Financial overcapitalization will not make up for the intellectual undercapitalization of this institution nor its namesake.
Trudeau: Post Mortem

Trudeau was simply a terrible leader. He had no respect for individual rights and freedoms. This is evident in his lifelong admiration of dictators, his imposition of military rule in Canada, his political philosophy and his repatriation of the Constitution. His arrogance and immaturity served as the basis for his popularity, rather than any meritous achievements. His actions and policies were deleterious, harming not only Albertans but also Canadians. His actions will eventually lead to the breakup of Canada. Ironically, Trudeau gets credit for holding Canada together, but he should get credit for helping to break it apart.

As Senator Link Byfield states:
"As far as I have ever been able to tell, Pierre Trudeau had three assets: cleverness, style and nerve. In short, he was an actor. He could act like an intellectual, or a lover, or a statesman, or a brawler, and a huge audience followed along, relishing his every word, gesture and hat. In this sense, he was "great." It was this quality that captivated such widespread attention."

"Behind that mask, however, he was moody, inconsistent, glib, arrogant and shallow."

Good riddance.

The above was written by an Albertan for the Albertans .
Last edited by china; Dec 11th, 2010 at 11:50 PM..


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:52 pm
 


Great post Pluggy. Image

I always knew there was something about the Charter I didn't trust but it was more I just figured judges were getting to much flexibility to be stupid. Power without recourse for the ones they unjustly wronged.

Cases of citizens getting walked on by bad judges have been getting pretty blatant lately. Pretty much legislating from the bench. If they want a law they just make one up, it seems. That's Pierre's charter that's letting them do that, is it?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:18 am
 


PluggyRug wrote:
Old stuff but pertinent.


Pierre Trudeau has a long history of supporting dictators. Let us consider Trudeau's actions:

Trudeau admired Mao, stating that stating that Mao had delivered a "wonderful system to his people." Mao is one of the bloodiest killers in human history, responsible for tens of millions of deaths during the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. Trudeau had no problem with this on his conscience and liberalized relations with China. According to R.J. Rummell, from 1949-1987, there were between 6.0 million to 102 million people killed by the Chinese government, with the best estimate at 35.2 million people murdered. Trudeau proclaimed "Viva Castro" in 1973. Castro is another butcher that Trudeau idolized. According to Rummell, Castro killed between 35,000 and 141,000 Cubans, with 73,000 being the most likely estimate. Trudeau shamefully allowed Cuban military transport planes to refuel in Newfoundland before resupplying themselves in the U.S.S.R.. From there, the Cuban soldiers were killing Angolans.Senator Link Byfield, in a September 30, 2000 Globe and Mail column, stated Trudeau "was once overheard by reporters remarking to Fidel Castro how much quicker and easier it would be to run things the Cuban way". Trudeau visited the Soviet Union several times, and each time praised it, whether it was oppressed under Stalin or Brezhnev. Trudeau infuriated many Soviet dissidents by praising the development of Siberia - which as anyone knows, was developed by the Soviets using gulag slave labor. Trudeau's intellectual inspiration while at the London School of Economics was Harold Laski, an apologist for Stalin. Trudeau is on the record in Cite Libre, praising Stalin's totalitarianism. As Rummel notes, the Soviet regime that Trudeau spoke fondly of killed between 28.326 million and 126.891 million people, with 61.911 million corpses being the most likely estimate.
Journalist Robert Fulford states "to Canada's eternal shame, Trudeau expressed sympathy with the venomous General Wojceich Jaruzelski when the general imposed martial law on Poland in 1981, banned Solidarity and arrested union leaders." Byfield states of Trudeau "He seemed to have the mind of a dictator, not a democrat."
Trudeau dressed as a German soldier and riding around Jewish suburbs of Montreal DURING WORLD WAR II (as reported by Mordecai Richler). While this does not imply that Trudeau was a Nazi - Trudeau's version of socialism differed from Hitler's - his actions were tasteless at best. Historian Esther Delisle noted that some of Quebec's elite supported Petain and the Vichy French during World War II. This adds further context to Trudeau's professed doubt that World War II was a just war.

In addition to the inhuman murderers above, he also praised and supported dictators like Mugabe, Nyerere and others.

Trudeau supported killers and dictators. He was not interested in freedom, justice or liberty.

Trudeau & His Economic Illiteracy

Trudeau's economic policy was a disaster. Small wonder, since he adored the Fabian socialist ideas of Harold Laski.

Let us list the economic results under Trudeau:
-The national debt rose 1,100% under Trudeau, from $18 billion when Trudeau took office in 1968, to a debt that stood at $200 billion in 1984. If comparisons to the U.S. and their deficit spending are made, the comparison should also take into the account that the U.S. wasted billions of dollars in VietNam. Canada did not. Trudeau's economic illiteracy combatted this by raising taxes and spending.
-Trudeau oversaw the worst peacetime inflation in Canadian history. $100 of goods in 1968, when Trudeau took office, would cost $324.09 in 1984, when he left office. That represents an annualized inflation rate of 7.63%. Trudeau's economic policy focused on the effect, rather than the cause, of inflation. He legislated wage and price controls. Not only is this a terrible policy from the standpoint of individual rights (since it denies the liberty of contract), but it is terrible economic policy. It destroys the signals that prices send to the economy. For example, the wage rates are high in Alberta ($25/hr to deliver pizzas in Calgary right now) because there is an excess of demand relative to the supply of labor. Then again, if Trudeau couldn't see the oceans of blood spilled by Stalin as his economic mentor Laski couldn't, why would we expect for him to see the effects of supply and demand?
-Unemployment nearly tripled under Trudeau, from just over 4% to peaking at around 12% to falling just above 11% before Trudeau exited. Trudeau's response? He raised unemployment benefits, which decreased the incentive to find work; increased taxes and regulations, which decresed the incentives to create jobs; gave greater power to the unions, which increased the stickiness of wage rate changes. The result was that Canadian unemployment rates significantly diverged from U.S. unemployment rates, based largely on Trudeauvian policies.
-Economic growth struggled in Canada under Trudeau. This is a combination of Trudeau's statist expansion of the government into the economy and his protectionist bent. His protectionist policies not only included the F.I.R.A., which killed investment into the energy industry in Alberta, but also included the adherence to the status quo favoritism given to Eastern manufacturers. A most famous example of Trudeau expanding the state into economy has to be the National Energy Program. The National Energy Program controled free market prices, which caused the energy industry to be devastated in Alberta. The economic growth in Alberta was destroyed. Albertan homeowners defaulted en masse as they became unemployed and the value of their homes decreased - all thanks to Trudeau and his N.E.P.

Trudeau was an economic illiterate. His policies saw debt and taxes rise, inflation rise, unemployment rise and economic growth falter; these results were the logical consequence of his illogical ideas. Trudeau the Pampered Elitist

Trudeau was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and evolved from spoiled child to professional student to world traveler on his father's dime. His spoiled childhood consisted of being driven to school by a chaffeur, and starting a childhood club with the moniker "Les Snobs." Before he became involved in federal politics, his career consistented of remaining separated from reality by working as an associate professor and working for labor unions in Quebec.

As Colby Cosh succintly and poignantly states:
"[M]aybe someone can explain to me what Trudeau's "successful career" outside of politics consisted of. As I understand it, he spent a lot of time swanning about the world on his father's chequebook, then eventually started doing legal and administrative work for Quebec labour unions.... in Quebec, labour unions are political institutions."

Let's not pretend that Trudeau was a self-made man that rose from the ashes of poverty. Unlike a Bill Clinton, he was born into wealth, and was raised utilizing his family's wealth. It is unarguable that that was his family's privilege. It is arguable whether this affected Trudeau in many ways, such as being connected to any sort of economic reality, or perhaps being an elitist.

Trudeau's understanding of economics is treated above. Was he an elitist? Undoubtedly. He was part of a childhood group called "Les Snobs." His political style consisted of avoiding the distasteful task of building consensus, but rather imposing his will on the public. He had no problem acting like a modern day Marie Antoinette, giving the finger to protesting masses while sitting in his private luxury rail car. His treatment of Alberta is entirely consistent with Trudeau's elitism - in this case, central Canada being the elite master. So was his execution of the official bilingualism, with French speakers granted a heightened status by fiat in any quest to become a civil servant. Trudeau mocked Lougheed by saying he "revealed his own ignorance" by not understanding how to market energy. Fact is, the Alberta economic flourished under Lougheed (until Trudeau intervened) and the Canadian economy struggled under Trudeau. Trudeau's attitude is nothing more than elitist claptrap. Perhaps the Kool-Aid drinking zombies West of Manitoba wouldn't be so hypnotized if they were talked down to as Albertans were.
Trudeau & the Charter of Rights

Trudeau is usually regarded as a great protector of individual rights. Nothing could be further from the truth. First, consider his imposition of martial law. Military rule is not what protectors of liberty and rights impose on their citizens.

Second, consider the company he kept: dictators. Trudeau cozied up to killers like Mao and Castro. Friendship with totalitarian dictators like Mao, Castro, Mugabe or Brezhnev is not consistent with defending the rights of citizens. Someone dedicated to preserving the rights of citizens would likely not ride around on his motorcycle dressed as a German soldier during World War II. Trudeau did, according to Mordecai Richler, and did so in Jewish areas.

Trudeau's "achievements" also included policies noted above such as the National Energy Program and Wage & Price Controls. At the nature of those programs is that the individual's freedom to trade voluntarily is denied. That is the exact opposite of protecting rights. In fact, several countries' constitutions protect voluntary trade between their citizens. Trudeau had no problems consistently abridging these rights.

Trudeau is given credit for liberalizing divorce laws and legalizing homosexuality. Note that this was done with Pearson as Prime Minister, so it was not Trudeau who was ultimately responsible for this policy. I have no problems with either action. Liberalizing divorce laws may or may not protect rights, depending on how it deals with contracts and the mutual consent of both parties. Legalizing a consensual act between two adults is a good thing, and is consistent with protecting rights. However, why wasn't Trudeau consistent with his rationale? "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation” is an absolutely accurate quote. But what if I wish to watch American television in my bedroom before retiring to bed? Trudeau limited our rights to do that. What if I wish to read non-Canadian magazines in my bedroom before reitring? Trudeau limited our rights to do that. What if I operate my home business from a desk in my bedroom? Trudeau limited our rights to do that. Trudeau simply favored a few rights, and ignored countless others.

What about the Charter of Rights? Again, it protects some rights, and does so inconsistently. But what it clearly does is expand the power of the judiciary, and give privileges to some groups at the expense of individual rights. The Charter of Rights does not protect the rights of Canadians. For example:
1. There are no property rights enshrined in the Constitution. This obvious omission made it possible to deprive citizens of their property without due process of law. This is a right that Americans have enshrined in their Consitution. Canadians have to rely on the common law to protect this right, and it can be negated by statute. Albertans, however, have legislation that protects property rights, but those rights are still subject to being dominated by the federal government.
2. The entire Constitution does not recognize rights of citizens and thusly lists limits on the government's power to infringe upon those rights. Rather, it grants permissions - "rights" that only exist because the government allows them. This is not a document that protects rights.
3. The preamble to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms infringes upon religious freedoms, namely by basing the Charter on the principle of the supremacy of God. Quite frankly, that is offensive as hell to 1/4 of Albertans who aren't religious. It is not consistent with the freedom to worship, which includes the liberty to not believe, as well as the right to believe in many gods.
4. The Charter of Rights limits rights subject to "limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." The raison d'etre for a Constitution or bill of rights is to limit the power of legislation. Legislation does not limit the rights in a Constitution. This clause simply opens up holes by which rights and liberties can be limited.
5. Mobility rights are limited by various laws that justify the transfer wealth to one group. Without this clause, the transfer payments that keep Alberta's labor force without adequate supplies of labor, while keeping other locales with much higher unemployment rates, might not be sustained. In any event, the rights of individuals are suborndinated to the interests of the collective.
6. Equality rights defend the concept except....when laws, programs or activities decide that people should not be treated as equal, and they can be treated unequally before the law based on race, national or ethnic origin, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability. Welcome to Canada, where you're equal, unless you aren't. This is a racist, sexist clause that simply favors some groups at the expense of individuals.

The Notwithstanding Clause is usually interpreted as something that gives the government the power to avoid certain legislation that expands rights. Given the nature of this document that does not protect rights, the Notwithstanding Clause can actually serve to protect rights. It simply depends on how it is enforced. Ideally, the Notwithstanding Clause could be used to renew federalism by limiting the power of the central government in favor of the regional governments. Unfortunately, that wasn't how it was written.

Let's not pretend that Trudeau was the great defender of rights because of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. He repatriated the Constitution in order to get a legacy. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not protect rights and liberties.


Trudeau's Effect on Unity

Trudeau is usually regarded as being a great Canadian patriot who kept Canada together. Let's examine the actual facts:
-The War Measures Act, while initially reducing membership in the Parti Quebecois, contributed to the Parti Quebecois rising from 7 seats prior to martial law to becoming the Official Opposition in 1973 to becoming the governing party in Quebec in 1976.
-Not getting Quebec's signature on the repatriation of the Constitution gives Quebec sovereigntists a pretext for claiming to be not part of Canada
-Increased centralization and abusive policies have isolated Alberta, Quebec, and to a lesser extent, the West.
-The costly imposition of Official Bilingualism has served to divide English and French Canada.
-The National Energy Program inspired the first secessionist MLA to be elected in Alberta, Gordon Kesler. It also caused the W.C.C. to gain over 11% of the popular vote

I fail to see how Trudeau benefitted unity. However, from my secessionist perspective, this is a good thing. Trudeaumania: Superficial or Cult of Personality?

Both!

Trudeau's initial popularity was based upon many superficial traits. Though some claim their excitement was based upon Trudeau's liberalizing divorce laws or legalizing homosexuality, these are not issues that generate fervor that Trudeaumania generated. I don't see women throwing their panties at Simon Wiesenthal.

Trudeau's lemming-like following was based on the superficialties of fashion, physical attraction and Trudeau's attitude. Trudeau had an appeal because he wore a rose on his lapel and would wear sandals in the House of Commons. What is more superficial than that? Perhaps that the balding, middle-aged, wiry Trudeau was somehow considered attractive? That's certainly superficial. But let us consider the facts: he was balding and middle-aged. I don't believe that is the usual standard of attractiveness for men. That's why the inclination has to be that Trudeaumania wasn't based on anything more than a cult of personality.

Trudeau's personality was a combination of arrogance, a conformist's faux rebellions and simple immaturity. I have no respect for the monarchy, but pirouhetting behind the Queen was simply childish. It was not playful, it was immature. Yet for all the glitz, Trudeau followed all dictums and traditions in order to repatriate the Constitution and took few concrete steps to eliminate the monarcy. Rebellion? Hardly. Wearing sandals in the House of Commons? Rebellious? It's simply a piece of clothing - Trudeau's action is no different than teenaged followers whose conformity is revealed by wearing loose jeans around their ass.

Unfortunately for Canadians, and especially Albertans, a pop culture phenomenon that should have lasted 15 minutes lingered for 15 years. Trudeau: Ripping Albertans Off After Death

The Trudeau Foundation quietly received $125 million from the Canadian government to fund itself. Appropriately, the Trudeau Foundation could not rely on private donations, but needed to rely on taxation. In death, Trudeau's ideas need to be forced on Canada's citizens, just as was the case during his life.

Here is the announcement by the Canadian government. Note that $125,000,000 is designed to fund up to 100 doctoral and post-doctoral students. Once again, the lack of even the most rudimentary economic knowledge is the characteristic of a Trudeauvian institution. Financial overcapitalization will not make up for the intellectual undercapitalization of this institution nor its namesake.
Trudeau: Post Mortem

Trudeau was simply a terrible leader. He had no respect for individual rights and freedoms. This is evident in his lifelong admiration of dictators, his imposition of military rule in Canada, his political philosophy and his repatriation of the Constitution. His arrogance and immaturity served as the basis for his popularity, rather than any meritous achievements. His actions and policies were deleterious, harming not only Albertans but also Canadians. His actions will eventually lead to the breakup of Canada. Ironically, Trudeau gets credit for holding Canada together, but he should get credit for helping to break it apart.

As Senator Link Byfield states:
"As far as I have ever been able to tell, Pierre Trudeau had three assets: cleverness, style and nerve. In short, he was an actor. He could act like an intellectual, or a lover, or a statesman, or a brawler, and a huge audience followed along, relishing his every word, gesture and hat. In this sense, he was "great." It was this quality that captivated such widespread attention."

"Behind that mask, however, he was moody, inconsistent, glib, arrogant and shallow."

Good riddance.

The above was written by an Albertan for the Albertans .
Last edited by china; Dec 11th, 2010 at 11:50 PM..


Unfortunately I don’t have the time to dissect all the broken logic, exaggerations etc in the above budget let’s focus on the “support for dictators “ thing.

Let’s be clear: Conservative and Republican governments have a proven track record of ACTIVELY SUPPORTING dictators with gifts of money and weapons and even, in the case of Republicans, WMD.

Cherry-picking idle pleasantries exchanged during diplomatic visits and trade missions as some sort of support for dictatorship is pathetic. And Republicans and conservatives certainly have no shortage of those either.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:13 am
 


^ whataboutism - the bane of all discussions

Every country has a leader who turns out to be an existential catastrophe for that nation, the most prolific destroyer in their entire respective history. Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia, etc all had their own respective you-know-who's that were the equivalent of being at ground zero for a nuclear weapon going on. The Americans are currently going through it with Trump. There's no doubt that for Canada that leader who quite literally wrecked the country and made everything after him that much worse was Trudeau The Elder. Some men are just sheer destruction in human form. The only difference with Trudeau compared with other nations was how effectively he wore a pseudo-intellectual veneer that enabled him to get the central regions of Canada to go along with his campaign of obliteration like Pavlovian dogs. The cult he had around him, and still does today, was no different at all than the ones that grew around any of the other monsters.


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Quote:
The above was written by an Albertan for the Albertans

surprise, surprise! I thought maybe the John Birch Society tried to open a Canadian branch and you found an old brochure.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:20 pm
 


herbie wrote:
Quote:
The above was written by an Albertan for the Albertans

surprise, surprise! I thought maybe the John Birch Society tried to open a Canadian branch and you found an old brochure.


Be a good idea to resurrect it's principles and get rid of the sops running ruining Canada.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:41 pm
 


Not worshipping Trudeaus = John Birch Society. Check, aging-hippie Canada has made it's voice heard again


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:56 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
Not worshipping Trudeaus = John Birch Society. Check, aging-hippie Canada has made it's voice heard again

When's our next meeting, Thanos?


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