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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:42 pm
 


BeaverFever wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
I have no problem with some forms of gun control but it's only one part of the solution. You can only control the guns you have control over which means, there are still going to be millions of illegal weapons out of your reach that these mentally deficient assholes have access to.
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We have control over every gun manufactured, since they are all made legally by a properly accredited manufacturer for an ostensibly legal purpose . We also have control over every gun legally imported and sold and possessed. Every illegal gun in the hands of a criminal was once a legal gun that we once controlled. There have been exactly zero mass shootings with homemade guns and AFAIK none or few were with smuggled guns.


A simplification and the term "we once controlled" should be a vindication of my position that they don't control those guns anymore which makes them in essence illegal.

And, we're not talking a few rifles here, we're talking millions of weapons both locally manufactured or imported that the US gov't has lost, had stolen or sold themselves to countries like Mexico. So claiming that they once had control over them is meaningless and nothing more than gov't speak to try and make it sound like they've got a handle on a situation that spiraled out of control decades ago.

BTW could you give me the link to your post as I'd be interested to read the entire article.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:51 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
BeaverFever wrote:

We have control over every gun manufactured, since they are all made legally by a properly accredited manufacturer for an ostensibly legal purpose . We also have control over every gun legally imported and sold and possessed. Every illegal gun in the hands of a criminal was once a legal gun that we once controlled. There have been exactly zero mass shootings with homemade guns and AFAIK none or few were with smuggled guns.

A simplification and the term "we once controlled" should be a vindication of my position that they don't control those guns anymore which makes them in essence illegal.

And, we're not talking a few rifles here, we're talking millions of weapons both locally manufactured or imported that the US gov't has lost, had stolen or sold themselves to countries like Mexico. So claiming that they once had control over them is meaningless and nothing more than gov't speak to try and make it sound like they've got a handle on a situation that spiraled out of control decades ago.

BTW could you give me the link to your post as I'd be interested to read the entire article.


The point is that the controls on legal guns are weak and the system is so full of gaps and cracks that there’s a flood of legal guns into the illegal market. Time to start filling in those cracks.

Theres no article I just messed up the quotes.


Last edited by BeaverFever on Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:06 am
 


Within 30 seconds of firing his first shot, the Dayton shooter was shot dead by police. And yet in those 30 seconds he killed 9 people and injured 27 with what sounds like an AR-15 and 100-round magazines. Kind of explodes the NRA myth that mass shootings can be effectively prevented by “a good guy with a gun”


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:28 am
 


xerxes wrote:
Universal background checks
Assault weapons ban
Waiting periods
Close gun show and online sales loopholes
Gun buyback programs.

These are all good starting places for effective gun control.


One point of contention is the term Assault Weapon. What is one persons definition is not the same as another persons.

The rest I have no issue with. Buyback programs have for the most part been a joke here in the US.

I would also have a very strong look at the school system here. Kids are not learning how to cope with reality. They have a seriously hard time with rejection and being told no. Failure is part of life and to many kids now seem to be unable to accept and or cope with failure and want to blame others for theirs.

Mental issues have been brought up and yes some of these shooters have had serious mental issues. Still some have just been full of hate and or radicalized to a point where they feel things like this is normal. I don't think of this as a true mental issue more of a brainwashing issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:31 am
 


In the end I'll still blame the shooter for doing the shooting. What ever his or hers motivation is they still are the ones who pulled the trigger.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:31 am
 


raydan wrote:
You know that as soon as you talk about "gun control", the average American gun owner's reaction is "they'll take my guns over my dead body".

That would be a good start.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:38 am
 


herbie wrote:
raydan wrote:
You know that as soon as you talk about "gun control", the average American gun owner's reaction is "they'll take my guns over my dead body".

That would be a good start.


You are now advocating for mass shootings Herbie. 8O


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:40 am
 


stratos wrote:
xerxes wrote:
Universal background checks
Assault weapons ban
Waiting periods
Close gun show and online sales loopholes
Gun buyback programs.

These are all good starting places for effective gun control.


One point of contention is the term Assault Weapon. What is one persons definition is not the same as another persons.

The rest I have no issue with. Buyback programs have for the most part been a joke here in the US.

I would also have a very strong look at the school system here. Kids are not learning how to cope with reality. They have a seriously hard time with rejection and being told no. Failure is part of life and to many kids now seem to be unable to accept and or cope with failure and want to blame others for theirs.

Mental issues have been brought up and yes some of these shooters have had serious mental issues. Still some have just been full of hate and or radicalized to a point where they feel things like this is normal. I don't think of this as a true mental issue more of a brainwashing issue.


Yeah. The term assault rifle can be a vague term and that was one of the failings of the 1994 Assault Weapons ban. But that ban was still a good starting point. I’m not a policy guy but I would think a good starting point would be banning weapons over a certain muzzle velocity. Or if that’s still an issue, then ban all semi-auto rifles. Go back to bolt action rifles and you can greatly reduce the amount of death a would be killer could deal.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:45 am
 


Bolt action riffles fall under the Semi-Automatic term. They are called bolt action to help differentiate them from other types of Semi-Automatic weapons.

Just think of Semi - Automatic meaning pull the trigger once one bullet comes out. Automatic think pull the trigger and lots of bullets come out.

Not trying to make the above sound like I'm putting you or your idea down just trying to help clear up a term miss used by so many people both left and right.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:48 am
 


stratos wrote:
Bolt action riffles fall under the Semi-Automatic term. They are called bolt action to help differentiate them from other types of Semi-Automatic weapons.

Just think of Semi - Automatic meaning pull the trigger once one bullet comes out. Automatic think pull the trigger and lots of bullets come out.

Not trying to make the above sound like I'm putting you or your idea down just trying to help clear up a term miss used by so many people both left and right.


Not a problem. [B-o]


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:56 am
 


[B-o]


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:47 am
 


raydan wrote:
It's not a gun problem, it's a mentality problem.

Americans are still stuck in the wild west, where guns solve everything.


And you're stuck in Canada where the government solves nothing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:49 am
 


stratos wrote:
Bolt action riffles fall under the Semi-Automatic term.


A bolt-action rifle is NOT a semi-automatic rifle. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:54 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
raydan wrote:
It's not a gun problem, it's a mentality problem.

Americans are still stuck in the wild west, where guns solve everything.


And you're stuck in Canada where the government solves nothing.

I'll go even further and say that governments solve nothing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:56 am
 


BartSimpson wrote:
stratos wrote:
Bolt action riffles fall under the Semi-Automatic term.


A bolt-action rifle is NOT a semi-automatic rifle. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

That's what I have, a bolt-action rifle, and I've never considered it to be semi-automatic. :?


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