[Newsbot]

Title: Dion to announce his new Carbon Shaft
Category: Political
Posted By: ridenrain
Date: 2008-06-19 06:51:54
Canadian

[dino_bobba_renno]

Well I’ve read about four different articles from various sources on this and the two things people really want to know about this plan are still missing. How much and what will it apply to.

The Liberals have projected that this plan will cost tax payers 15.5 billion once fully implemented so it’s not like they don’t have a figure of how much or an idea of what products & services will be hit by this tax.

From the four articles I’ve seen the most anyone is going to get back through personal income tax cuts will be $500.00 and that’s if you’re in the lowest tax brackets and are with in a special segment such as seniors. The highest income bracket will remain unchanged which to me seems like a tax grab in and of it self.

Now for most normal folk I would assume they could expect to see a decrease in personal income taxes in tune with the $200 to $300 dollar range. Now it might just be me but I know damn well that any carbon tax of this type is going to cost me a hell of a lot more per year than that.

A carbon tax will hit everything we touch much like the GST (or even more so) so it should be safe to assume that it should generate income for the government at round the same level as the GST. The GST reductions of 2% cost the government 12 billion dollars so it would be safe to assume that a carbon tax should be with in that area + or – a half a percent so it will be interesting to see if the figure is with in that ball park when it comes out. My guess is it will be much higher than that.

One other interesting thing here is Dion’s plan to apply this tax to imports from countries that have no carbon reduction plan in place. I found this a tad bit funny because according to Kyoto protocol we can’t do that. Does this mean Dion will ditch the Kyoto protocol after years of belly aching that the conservatives won’t implement it?

[saturn_656]

I actually managed to read through the meat and potatoes of the green shift book at http://www.greenshift.ca and I was not in the least impressed.

First off the document is heavy on propaganda and light on hard facts.

The document mentions how the BC Liberal government is "leading the fight against climate change" with its own carbon tax system. What the document fails to mention is that if this were literally a fight, and climate change were a M1A2 Abrams battle tank, Canada would be a 9 year old boy with sling shot. We could not hope to even SLOW what is occurring much less stop and reverse it.

Why is this fact not mentioned in Dion's Green Book?

Dion's book also gives a definition for Revenue Neutral, read carefully.

"Revenue Neutral means that the federal government does not increase its revenues through a new tax. For every dollar raised in taxes, there will be a dollar returned to Canadians through tax cuts."

The tax is clearly only neutral as far as Fed Gov. is concerned, and don't think that because "every dollar raised will be a dollar returned" means it won't cost you anything. It doesn't say that every dollar paid by a taxpayer will be returned to that particular taxpayer in tax cuts.

Read it more as "every dollar earned in taxes from upper and middle class Canadians will be returned to lower income Canadians through tax cuts." This is quoted right out of the book "Our goal is to help low income Canadians in particular."

The book states that only low income Canadians will see the 10 per cent income tax cut. Middle class Canadians will see a 3.8 to 4.5 per cent cut at most.

What a bloody scam.

And the assistance to rural Canadians? a $150 "Green Rural Credit". Well screw you too Dion that 150 bucks, according to your book, won't even cover the boost in my natural gas much less anything else.

Did I say this was a big fucking scam yet?

[ridenrain]

I'm disapointed there's no comments about my creative title.

The Libs and their pet media are pushing this one hard but they waited too long and the CPC already got to define it in the public's oppinion and the public always has a healthy cycanism against new taxes.

But Dion definately needs to run with this.. right into the toilet.

[C.M. Burns]

ridenrain wrote:

I'm disapointed there's no comments about my creative title.

The Libs and their pet media are pushing this one hard but they waited too long and the CPC already got to define it in the public's oppinion and the public always has a healthy cycanism against new taxes.

But Dion definately needs to run with this.. right into the toilet.

You rotten bastard! You changed the title creatively and put the liberals in a bad light!!!

Well, I got a couple of choice words for the liberals. First, your website sucks massive oceans of lameness. The 'PLAN' is scattered over I don't know how many documents.

I found this:

Quote:

By the fourth year of our plan, we expect that

• a family with two children and a combined income of $20,000 will save almost $2,500;
• a family with two children earning $40,000 a year will save nearly $2,000;
• a family with two children earning $60,000 will save over $1,300, as will a family earning $80,000.

And that's pretty freekin' great for poor families!
but FOUR YEARS LATER???
In four years the price of oil is gonna be well over $250 a barrel and we won't need any taxes - except on the rich!

It sure isn't a plan. It's a political ad - heavy with claims and short on facts.

[ridenrain]

This is really the BC Liberals plan changed to a federal level but Dion didn't follow it long enough to notice that even Conservatives like me who regularly vote BC Liberal are thinking about protest votes with someone else.
Carol James definition of revenue neutral was to take the taxpayers money and give it back to them in some way that the government can spin as a public benefit.
For example, more busses or Crimetrain for downtown Vancouver won't help the folks living in the rest of the province just as the new floating bridge won't buy votes in the GVRD. Right now their stalling by giving the money back to us but I defy anyone to show me a government program thats 100% efficient.

Folks in BC saw through it and the folks in Canada will see through it also.

[C.M. Burns]

ridenrain wrote:

For example, more busses or Crimetrain for downtown Vancouver...

I thought it was called SkyTaser

[CanAm1]

15.5 billion DBR? Is that in the same mode of financing as the 10 million original tag for the gun registry?

[mtbr]

it all happens in the FOURTH year..sounds like Dion is begging for a majority so he could last till the FOURTH year.

This is another taxation scheme to raise money for social programs. Revenue neutral only for the lowest income levels , the rest get screwed.

[ridenrain]

(sod the inbed!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQTGHy1j ... rcial.html

Here's the official green shaft video.
Caution, the're laying it on thick this time.

[saturn_656]

You know why all the Liberals are smiling in that video? Cause they are thinking about how much they are going to rip off Joe Canadian taxpayer.

This bullshit may fool the simple and uninformed, but if Dion wants to sell it to me he'll have to try a little harder.

[kenmore]

I think its the torys that are full of shit... the liberal plan will put money back in taxpayers pockets.. the tories are running scared..

[RUEZ]

kenmore wrote:

I think its the torys that are full of shit... the liberal plan will put money back in taxpayers pockets.. the tories are running scared..

Not at all. I would like to thank the Liberal party for finally putting the nail in the coffin.

[kenmore]

RUEZ wrote:

kenmore wrote:

I think its the torys that are full of shit... the liberal plan will put money back in taxpayers pockets.. the tories are running scared..

Not at all. I would like to thank the Liberal party for finally putting the nail in the coffin.

DOESNT LOOK THAT BAD TO ME ...

Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion's new carbon tax plan calls for $11 billion in personal income tax cuts, exemptions on new taxes for aviation and diesel fuel for the first year, and extra help for vulnerable Canadians, CBC News has learned.

The plan, to be called the "Liberal Green Shift" and due to be unveiled in Ottawa on Thursday, includes about $15.5 billion tax cuts in total, according to Liberal sources.


As CBC News has already reported, the four-year plan will include controversial new taxes on emissions that will rise over time to try to reduce the use of fossil fuels by Canadian industries and homeowners. Tax breaks, however, will be offered to corporations and individuals to make the measures revenue-neutral for the federal government.


The 40-page document, sources said Wednesday, is expected to outline a one per cent reduction in both the general corporate tax rate (to 14 per cent from 15) and the small business income tax rate (to 10 per cent from 11).


The plan will also offer the following personal income tax cuts, as people pay more for heating costs, food and other items:


- A 1.5 per cent rate reduction for the lowest tax bracket (the first $37,885 of taxable income), to 13.5 per cent from 15.


- A 1 per cent rate reduction for the second-lowest tax bracket ($37,885-$75,769), to 21 per cent from 22.


- A 1 per cent rate reduction for the bracket between $75,769 and $123,184, to 25 per cent from 26.


No new taxes are expected on gas for cars, trucks and buses, and special help is expected to be offered for low-income Canadians to buffer the higher prices they will have to pay for goods and energy.


Other details confirmed by CBC News sources Wednesday include:


- A moratorium on new federal taxes on aviation and diesel fuel for the first year of the program.


- Extra help for low-income Canadians in the form of tax credits so they will get money back to help pay for the higher cost of goods, even if they report no income on their tax returns.


- Additional help for rural and northern Canadians to help soften the blow of possibly higher costs.


- Assistance for non-profit groups that may face a crunch - for example, women's shelters that have to pay significantly more to heat their premises.


- New tariffs on goods imported from countries that have no carbon taxes, as a way to even out higher costs for similar goods produced in Canada.


- Enriched tax breaks for companies using and inventing green technologies, to encourage research and development as well as investment.


If these details are confirmed when Dion unveils the plan Thursday, the carbon tax will provide between $12 billion and $15 billion in revenue to the federal government in the fourth year of its implementation.

[kenmore]

Really a good plan and I think most Canadians will support it..