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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:33 pm
 


Title: Donald Trump threatens to pull out of NAFTA and says he'll sue China in the WTO | Daily Mail Online
Category: Business
Posted By: shockedcanadian
Date: 2016-06-28 14:08:15
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:33 pm
 


He specifically stated he will assign members to oversee trade and abuses from "any country that engages in them". Any is an inclusive term which includes Canada.

We in Canada had better pray he doesn't win. We will be further isolated economically and with our reputation of dishonest brokerage thanks to the security apparatus in Canada, my guess is it will be four long years.

Of course, Ralph Goodale and his merry men can "create" some jobs, considering how many will be wiped out. I know I will do my part to reach out to him or Clinton if they win to ensure deals are calibrated to consider all factors.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:40 pm
 


$1:
I know I will do my part to reach out to him or Clinton if they win to ensure deals are calibrated to consider all factors.

Gee....thanks Lolly-pop.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:46 pm
 


Exiting NAFTA and suing China (hahahahaha) is gonna put a hurt on the US economy that will be far longer than the term of the President that does it.

Yes, it will suck for us too, but not nearly as bad as it will for the US.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:03 pm
 


At this stage Trump's just tossing wild shit out to get attention because it's dawning on him how badly he's going to get his ass kicked in November. He keeps ranting about TPP benefiting China even though the Chinese aren't even going to be signatories to it. The boat on NAFTA sailed a long time ago. the time to stop it was in the early 90's, not now. I'm against anymore trade deals because of what I learned from NAFTA but the devil is in the details now. If it causes more damage to leave than it will to stay then don't leave. Those old jobs aren't coming back, with or without NAFTA.

Brexit is different. The loss of national sovereignty to a de facto continental government is what's wrong with the EU, the trade issues weren't (or at least not to the same extent that it aggravated locals in Britain apparently). What has to happen to stymie the likes of Trump with his cheap politics or the Brexit Leave side is that some of the deals have to be re-negotiated in order to restore a certain measure of national sovereignty over the issues that inflame the local populations so much. Do that and the Leave campaign wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. The problem then becomes that the entrenched globalist elite, especially at the bureaucratic level in Brussels, is so damn arrogant and abusive with the power they've attained that they'd never allow any re-negotiations to ever happen.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:34 pm
 


peck420 peck420:
Exiting NAFTA and suing China (hahahahaha) is gonna put a hurt on the US economy that will be far longer than the term of the President that does it.

Yes, it will suck for us too, but not nearly as bad as it will for the US.


Fuck China. I'd burn my own fucking house down if it would hurt China. A little economic pain to prevent those plicks from starting a war in the Western Pacific is worth it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:37 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
He keeps ranting about TPP benefiting China even though the Chinese aren't even going to be signatories to it.


https://theintercept.com/2015/11/11/tru ... ing-china/

$1:
The TPP does indeed allow China and other non-members to reap benefits from the deal without having to abide by any of its terms.

Here’s how it works: TPP and other free trade deals allow signatories to exchange goods without tariffs. But we live in a complicated world, with source materials derived from one country often traveling through a supply chain to another and completed in a third before moving to a retail market.

To cope with this, TPP adds a “rule of origin” chapter to determine whether an amalgamated good qualifies for tariff-free status. This is particularly important in Southeast Asian nations like Vietnam or Malaysia, which get a significant amount of production materials from China.

TPP says that all materials that go into a good, outside of a de minimis 10 percent, must derive from TPP countries. However, there are numerous exceptions and exemptions, along with a confusing set of calculations to determine eligibility. Through these cracks in the agreement, as Trump alluded, China can deliver goods to TPP countries without tariffs.

Right now, the U.S. reserves the right to slap large tariffs on China, as it has done on steel (up to 236 percent), solar panels (up to 78 percent) and tires (up to 88 percent). But under TPP, many products, from agriculture to chemicals to plastics to leather seating, can include up to 60 percent of material from a non-TPP country.

Each product has a specific rule of origin that sets the level of non-TPP material that can be incorporated in a good. The chapter designating which products require which percentages only lists numbers instead of product names, which have to be converted using the international Harmonized Schedule of tariffs.

Green tea, 0902.10 on the Harmonized Schedule, can have a “regional value content” — meaning content from TPP countries — of not less than 40 percent. But that doesn’t mean 40 percent of the content; it means 40 percent of the value of the material, which takes into account shipping, processing, and many other variables. While the final calculations must follow basic accounting principles, they will be by definition inexact, so even more than 60 percent of a good, in reality, could come out of a non-TPP member like China.

Weak rules of origin are most clearly seen in auto production, which has its own special “net cost” method of calculating rule of origin. As Teamsters President James Hoffa has pointed out, while under NAFTA 62.5 percent of a car had to be made in a member country, with TPP that number goes down to 45 percent. An additional schedule of other parts would be considered as coming from a TPP country regardless of its origins, lowering the rule of origin to as much as 35 percent. A car could even be labeled “Made in America,” despite having the majority of its parts originating from China. That includes Chinese steel, currently subject to massive tariffs for U.S. import.

Rules of origin for textiles are allegedly more stringent, but they include a “short supply” list, allowing TPP countries to get their materials from non-TPP nations if they are in short supply within the TPP zone. This includes nearly 200 different fabrics, even certain types of cottons, any of which could come from China and get preferential tariff treatment.

There are also loopholes available. Take for instance Article 3.6, “Materials Used in Production.” This says that, if non-originating material undergoes further production in an originating country, then that material would be treated as originating. So you can imagine a disassembled Chinese product, shipped to Vietnam, put on a production line for completion, and delivered tariff-free to the United States.

Importers and exporters make certifications for the rules of origin, and if they can source materials more cheaply from China or elsewhere, they have an incentive to fudge the numbers to maintain their supply chain. No certification is needed for shipments under $1,000, meaning any scheme to ship large quantities in small segments could slip past inspection.

TPP members can inspect goods, but it’s not as simple as looking at a shirt and divining what part of it came from a certain country; enforcement is difficult and expensive. Brunei, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru and Vietnam have five years to institute a certification system for rules of origin, giving time for importers to maintain their existing systems and figure out how to game TPP rules.

So China would not have to raise any standards or comply with any TPP rules, yet still be able to produce millions of auto parts and textiles for TPP countries at a lower cost, without the burden of tariffs. “This will undoubtedly hurt the competitiveness of American manufacturers, particularly the American auto industry,” said Rep. Dan Kildee (D-Michl.), an opponent of TPP.

While Trump’s bluster certainly could be mistaken for ignorance about TPP, in this case he’s right: China can get their goods to the U.S. and other countries through the back door, in a number of ways, and take advantage of TPP without being part of the agreement. Our trade deficit with China, which for the first 9 months of the year stood at $273 billion, would likely not appreciably change after the agreement, despite the additional trading partners.


:idea:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:48 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Fuck China. I'd burn my own fucking house down if it would hurt China. A little economic pain to prevent those plicks from starting a war in the Western Pacific is worth it.

Weakening the US, in a poorly thought out attempt to inflict economic damages against China, is going to hasten a war in SE Asia far more than it is going to prevent it.

There is no win, for the US, in an economic war with China. The primary importers of Chinese made goods are US business'. The primary clients of those business' are US citizens. The primary recipients of any punitive damages (tariff or legal) are going to be in the US.

Ramifications in China...a fraction of a percent of some of their lowest paid workers lose their jobs temporarily.

You wouldn't enter a war without doing the proper preliminary leg work first. Why does Trump think he can enter an economic war without doing the same? Sadly, any real economic war between the two of you, with a good probability of the US winning, is a lot further out than Trump could ever be in office.

If Trump wants to fight a winnable war with China, throw down and get it done with. A military war, you guys will most certainly have the clear advantage in, especially now.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:35 pm
 


$1:

At this stage Trump's just tossing wild shit out to get attention

At this stage?
Fuck no, since Day One


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