[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Despite a disclaimer Reuters gives more fuel for Trump's fire:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cali ... SKCN1NJ1G6

$1:

(Reuters) - With a tweet blaming California’s wildfires on “gross mismanagement of the forests,” President Donald Trump dismissed the role of climate change in the worsening blazes across the U.S. West - generating widespread derision in the Golden State.

Viewed on the surface as the latest shot by Republican Trump at a Democratic state that has repeatedly pushed against his administration’s policies, the tweet nevertheless shone a spotlight on California’s overgrown forests and their role in devastating fires.

In fact, few disagree that California’s increasingly dry and overgrown forests are, effectively, large-scale tinderboxes.

“California’s forests are reaching a breaking point,” the Little Hoover Commission, an independent state oversight agency, wrote in a report earlier this year.

The report outlined recommendations such as increased prescribed burning and dedicating more money and jobs toward forest management — measures the state is already adopting.

Trump in the past has blamed environmental regulations for fires in California and promoted tree clearing to stop blazes. Last week, he took to Twitter again, saying, “There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor.”

The president was pilloried by firefighters and California Governor Jerry Brown, whose spokesman called Trump “uninformed.”

Nearly 60 percent of California’s 33 million acres of forests are under federal control, Trump’s critics said, noting the importance of climate change in causing more frequent and destructive fires. With a warming climate, rising temperatures and an increase in dry conditions in already-dry areas lead to a higher likelihood of drought.

California does not stand alone. The U.S. Forest Service’s practice of fire suppression has been an issue across many Western states. Although the Forest Service had changed that practice in the 1970s, a massive fire in Yellowstone National Park in 1988 caused the practice of letting fires burn where possible to be scrolled back. In addition, various groups and researchers cite increased building of housing near forests that have resulted in the need to battle more blazes.

And not all wildfires are fueled by forests. The current Woolsey fire burning near Malibu in Southern California is being fueled by coastal chaparral.

LOGGING RESTRICTIONS

Yet the Little Hoover Commission report found poor management policies for the last century have left forests vulnerable to fires.

“The costs of long neglecting and mismanaging forests have become an unsustainable burden in California,” the report said.

(Beaver: this is highlighted for you)

Before Europeans settled in California, Native American fire practices, including periodic low-intensity fires, helped renew forests and kept them from becoming too dense. Policies of aggressively fighting every fire, however, have resulted in the loss of that natural thinning.

In addition, federal and state restrictions on logging caused timber harvesting in California to decline more than 70 percent between the late 1980s and 2012, according to a U.S. Forest Service report.

Trees in federal forests where timber harvesting is prohibited have high mortality rates from wildfire, and dying trees currently outpace new growth, according to a report by the California Air Resources Board (CARB).

“When John Muir arrived and discovered Yosemite we had about 40 trees to an acre. Today we have hundreds of trees to an acre,” said Rich Gordon, president of the California Forestry Association, an industry group. “We will be better off if we can get closer to the way our forests once were.”

CARB, which oversees the state’s aggressive climate change regulations, has estimated that 15 million acres, or nearly half of the state’s forestlands, were in need of restoration. If left to languish, the forests could become a source of overall greenhouse gas emissions by burning rather than a means to draw carbon from the atmosphere, CARB said.

What you’ve posted has nothing to with Trump’s lies that the styof California is at fault and I have no idea shy you highlighted the part about First Nations people. Naturally you ignored everything I posted last.

I SAY AGAIN :

1) The majority of land currently burning is not managed by the state of California

2) The majority of labd burning is not forest

3) California doesn’t manage its forests any differently than aby other North American jurisdiction

Climate change and human activity are to blame

FULL STOP

There has always been discussion and debate within the firefighting and forestry sciences about when to conduct controlled burns or allow natural fires but Trump is trying to use and distort that to attack Democrats, and to deflect blame from climate change and human activity.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

What you’ve posted has nothing to with Trump’s lies that the styof California is at fault and I have no idea shy you highlighted the part about First Nations people. Naturally you ignored everything I posted last.

I SAY AGAIN :

1) The majority of land currently burning is not managed by the state of California

Have you ever heard of this newfangled gimcrack called 'Google Maps'? I ask because it shows government land in green and private land in grey. It also shows THAT YOU ARE WRONG.

1:

File comment: Paradise

Paradise.PNG [ 229.22 KiB | Viewed 68 times ]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

2) The majority of labd burning is not forest

Again, Have you ever heard of this newfangled gimcrack called 'Google Maps'? I ask because it shows government land in green and private land in grey. It also shows THAT YOU ARE WRONG.

See all the green shit in the picture? That's called TREES.

0:

File comment: Paradise 2

Paradise2.PNG [ 1.11 MiB | Viewed 71 times ]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

3) California doesn’t manage its forests any differently than aby other North American jurisdiction

Yes, we do. I've posted numerous links here for you to see for yourself and if you're too thick headed to look at official state sources that demonstrate these facts then there's not much I can do to help you.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Climate change and human activity are to blame

FULL STOP

There has always been discussion and debate within the firefighting and forestry sciences about when to conduct controlled burns or allow natural fires but Trump is trying to use and distort that to attack Democrats, and to deflect blame from climate change and human activity.

Again, if people are not freely allowed to clear their own land to ensure their safety then that's something that has to change.

And assuming that climate change is real then clearing the forests of dead trees, crowded trees, and dense underbrush is all the more urgent, isn't it?

So why does the State of California (as I showed in an earlier link from the state) impose regulations that cost as much as $10,000 an acre for mere assessments before even one single thing is done for safety?

And do you really think that mostly retired people and low income people can afford to pay thousands of dollars just to have some fuckwit come tell them that a tree is dead?

[llama66]

$1:

And do you really think that mostly retired people and low income people can afford to pay thousands of dollars just to have some fuckwit come tell them that a tree is dead?

To be fair, maybe the tree is pretending to be dead. You don't know. Only the expert knows.

[raydan]

I still think you should manage people... the forests have been managing themselves for thousands of years.

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

I still think you should manage people... the forests have been managing themselves for thousands of years.

We have fifty-nine people who are now confirmed as managed.

[DrCaleb]

raydan raydan:

I still think you should manage people... the forests have been managing themselves for thousands of years.

^^^

Nature does just fine without us f-king it up.

[BartSimpson]

llama66 llama66:

$1:

And do you really think that mostly retired people and low income people can afford to pay thousands of dollars just to have some fuckwit come tell them that a tree is dead?

To be fair, maybe the tree is pretending to be dead. You don't know. Only the expert knows.

This is why I like you and I am grateful that you didn't take a break.

[llama66]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

raydan raydan:

I still think you should manage people... the forests have been managing themselves for thousands of years.

^^^

Nature does just fine without us f-king it up.

I think the problem is 39 million people now live where nature is trying to "manage" itself. We do need to help it along, considering the last 3 years the fires seem to be worse than I ever remember. Maybe we do need to help with controlled burns and brush clearing. Maybe we need to go as far as establishing a State/Provincial National or Continental (I only say Continental, because 9 times out of ten Canadians help Americans and vise versa for the major fires) Forest Fire Fighting Service where we have Fire Fighters that go from fire to fire trying to assist local services with both knocking down the fire and assisting with evacuations, (as well as engaging in preventive measures such as controlled burns and brush clearance) theoretically allowing the local fire departments a chance to protect as much of their towns as possible.

[DrCaleb]

llama66 llama66:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

raydan raydan:

I still think you should manage people... the forests have been managing themselves for thousands of years.

^^^

Nature does just fine without us f-king it up.

I think the problem is 39 million people now live where nature is trying to "manage" itself. We do need to help it along, considering the last 3 years the fires seem to be worse than I ever remember. Maybe we do need to help with controlled burns and brush clearing. Maybe we need to go as far as establishing a State/Provincial National or Continental (I only say Continental, because 9 times out of ten Canadians help Americans and vise versa for the major fires) Forest Fire Fighting Service where we have Fire Fighters that go from fire to fire trying to assist local services with both knocking down the fire and assisting with evacuations, (as well as engaging in preventive measures such as controlled burns and brush clearance) theoretically allowing the local fire departments a chance to protect as much of their towns as possible.

One of the things that came out of the Slave Lake and Fort McMurray fires was a lot of the land management people cursing out the land developers for offering 'forest backed' property, without proper fire breaks. Decades ago they knew that you can't seamlessly blend forest with development, because the forest needs renewal by fire every so often. But developers want to sell land, for as much as they can. So we end up with houses, surrounded by trees, with parks and trails running through our cities. And every so often they burn.

Most of the northern hemisphere is covered in trees. And every year, there are huge forest fires that consume the fuel and renew the forest. And it usually happens where people don't live.

When it does happen where people live, we haven't properly respected nature by giving a zone between us, and we lose lives and property.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/world-on ... -1.3576953
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ex ... phic-fires
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/al ... e29878341/

[llama66]

The practical problem is no one want to live on the edge of a dirt moat. (Grass burns wonderfully as I found out when I was 10 when we (my dad, my brothers and I) tried to burn a little brush and we manged to burn an acre to the ground instead. That was the funnest of days)

[herbie]

You're talking about somewhere there's 10x as many people, it ain't snowed under for4-6 months a year, it doesn't piss rain the other months, it's hotter and windier even without factoring climate change and taxes for services and rules by gov't are seen as the work of Satan himself.
On to of a miserable asshole leader who couln't give a shit about anything but being worshipped.

Top it off by people who think someone else should "manage" the unmanagable like wind, rain, bug kills all while refusing to manage what they can (human influence on climate change for one) and you're fucked.
All we can do is send aid and offer firefighters. At least that's better than toilet bowls full of thoughts and prayers.

[BartSimpson]

herbie herbie:

You're talking about somewhere there's 10x as many people, it ain't snowed under for4-6 months a year, it doesn't piss rain the other months, it's hotter and windier even without factoring climate change and taxes for services and rules by gov't are seen as the work of Satan himself.

All of those details in sum are what we simply refer to as California.

[BartSimpson]

Here's the current view from my office. Normally you'd see the city skyline about two or so miles away. Right now, not so much.

[xerxes]

Nasty. My lungs feel tight just looking at that.

[BartSimpson]

xerxes xerxes:

Nasty. My lungs feel tight just looking at that.

Inside of our bigly vaunted 'green' building the particulate matter is 121ppm.

Outside it's right now 261ppm.