[Thanos]

Florida - home of the unhinged rant

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

Florida - home of the unhinged rant

More like the home of people tired of their hard earned tax dollars going to fat cat extortionist. They don't have to pay off some rich prick just so they can feel like their city is "world class". They know they are world class. Look at how many millions of Canadians visit Florida every year. Compare that to how many Floridians have ever visited Calgary. Two maybe? Those two went because their jobs made them go.

[Thanos]

I'm not interested in talking to you right now because I'm tired of you directing your oversized paragraph tantrums at me.

[martin14]

rickc rickc:

Whats all this whining about a stadium being to old anyway?

More money for the owners.
They have been quite good at blackmailing cities
for some nice gibs and tax breaks.

Things, Nenshi wants the Flames to leave.
He's begging them to go.

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

I'm not interested in talking to you right now because I'm tired of you directing your oversized paragraph tantrums at me.

LOL! OK I will cut you some slack then. But before I go I know why you hate Florida so much: 2004 Stanley Cup Finals. I was a season ticket holder for the Lowell Lock Monsters that year. Carolina owned them, but they had a special deal with Calgary to maintain 10 players, and one goalie at all times. Come playoff time, several of my favs were called up to the Flames. Sonnenburg, Loyns, Evans, Sabourin, and my personal favorite: Mike Commodore. I was pulling for the Flames. It was a great series. I feel your pain. Not as deeply as you do, but you get the picture.

[rickc]

martin14 martin14:

rickc rickc:

Whats all this whining about a stadium being to old anyway?

More money for the owners.
They have been quite good at blackmailing cities
for some nice gibs and tax breaks.

Things, Nenshi wants the Flames to leave.
He's begging them to go.

I do not want to see any team that has good support from the fans leave, period. If the seats are empty than I do not blame the owner for leaving. It IS a business. I feel bad for the city of Oakland. They have always supported the Raiders. They even took them back after Mr. Davis moved them to LA in the 80's. I personally do not care for Raiders fans as they tend to be an unruly mob that tends to start fights and break up places. They don't travel well. But they are loyal. They go to the games. They spend their money. They support the team. Now they are getting screwed by a greedy asshole owner who is selling them to the highest bidder. Thats wrong. Vegas is now talking about stealing the A's as well. Thats fucked up. I think a national law against tax dollars being used for building sports complexes would help even the playing field. If the owner is paying he might have to stay where he has a loyal following. I know the Habs have a "no move clause". Imagine if some high priced lawyer found a way out, and moved them. That would be like a sacralige to the sport. Montreal IS the Habs. You can't have one without the other.Calgary does not have anywhere the history of Montreal, but they do support the team. I don't care for the management of the team giving veiled theats that they are no longer looking for a complex in Calgary. Thats extortion. Everyone knows that Nenshi is a dipshit, but some one must have voted for him.

[martin14]

rickc rickc:

I think a national law against tax dollars being used for building sports complexes would help even the playing field. If the owner is paying he might have to stay where he has a loyal following.

There is always a way around that, and then you can forget ever having another Olympics
(not that that is a bad thing )

It's difficult all the around, but if Nenshi won't even look at it, then it's
pretty obvious what he wants.
Either that, or no one has ponied up enough of a bribe... yet.

[N_Fiddledog]

No matter who's in the right it would sure suck for Calgary to lose its team right now. As a hockey team they were just starting get their act together.

It was starting to look like Calgary and Edmonton were becoming the power in the West.

[Thanos]

Whatever flaws Edmonton's mayors had in their dealings with Darryl Katz for the Oilers development pale in comparison simply because none of them had the same out of control ego that Nenshi has. I can easily see us losing the team simply because he'll veto any deal that doesn't make him look like the super-est of all the super-heroes. And with the cult of personality that surrounds him, in the form of Calgary's downtown hipster set, there'll be a large portion of the population that goes along with him. Calgary is no longer the sensible and livable small-c conservative town that it used to be up until about ten years ago. I don't know what it is anymore but whatever Nenshi and his pals have changed it into it isn't good.

I wasn't kidding when I called him a low-grade Donald Trump. Nenshi is exactly the same type of needy baby that Trump is, tantruming when the attention isn't on him and doing whatever he can to wreck things just to make sure all eyes are always on him.

[BeaverFever]

rickc rickc:

Thanos Thanos:

CalgaryNEXT included a new football stadium, community sports facilities, hotels, housing, and a whole bunch of other goodies that would have essentially rebuilt the entire west end of downtown. Hence the price tag. It also had far superior roadways going into the complex, as opposed to the non-stop red light traffic signals in and around Stampede Park. A stand-alone hockey/concert arena would probably cost about the same as Rogers Place in Edmonton did, between $600 and 700 million.

Nenshi kiboshed the entire idea without even letting it be submitted to committee for study. That was what set off the fight between him and the Flames, that he sandbagged them on purpose for his own ends to make himself look the hero with this "no public dollars!" crap that appeals to meatheads. No mention at all, of course, of the endless economic offshoots (like in property taxes alone) that the city would have ended up collecting over the forty-year lifespan of the CalgaryNEXT development. Or the simply aesthetic value gained by the west part of downtown finally becoming noticeable for something more than just a grubby Greyhound bus terminal, some parking lots, and a couple of car dealerships.

This is Calgary. For all the "dynamic" talk we're no different than any other city in Canada. No vision, no sense of doing something really big that stands out, just the ugly little peevishness that always rises to the surface the second anyone (like the Flames organization) proposes doing something really great.

I can't figure you out. You spend a lot of time on this forum bitching about how the greedy rich man is always screwing over the little guy. Then you do a complete 360 and tell us how Calgary whose economy has taken a steel toe boot to the nut sack, (Calgary lost 12,500 jobs in 2016) should spend billions of dollars building a new stadium for owners who themselves are billionaires. Murray Edwards and Clay Riddell are Billionaires. The rest of the Flames owners aren't doing too bad themselves. Calgary had the worst unemployment rate in Canada for over a year. I think that a city where almost one in ten people are out of work has bigger problems than spending billions of dollars making some fat cats even fatter. Let them pay for their own damn stadium. Robert Kraft did!!! He spent his own money to build Gillette Stadium. The Patriots have gone on to become the second most valuable team in the NFL money wise, and the most successful team on the field by far. Him spending his own money did not hurt the team one bit.

Whats all this whining about a stadium being to old anyway? Fenway park was built in 1912. I don't hear anyone in Boston whining about a new stadium. Lambeau field was built in 1957. No talk of a new stadium whatsoever. They have a 30 year waiting list for season tickets. What real Flames fan is saying that they are not going to the game because the arena is to old? No one!!! Ever!!! The Flames had the 10th highest attendance rate in the NHL. The average attendence at Scotiabank saddledome is 3000 short of Chicago. Chicago has over twice the population of Calgary and they have a team that is older and more storied than the flames (not to mention that they have won multiple Stanley Cups in the decade that we are presently in). The flames average attendence is only 562 short of maximum capacity. That is fucking phenomenal for a city that had Canada's highest unemployment rate!!! You can't tell me people are not going to the games, because they are.

We in Vegas can afford to steal sports teams with the promise of new stadiums because the bonds are financed by adding an additional tax on hotel rooms. In other words it does not cost me a dime out of my pocket. The tourist pay all of it. Florida is in the same league. A small addittional tourist tax could finance brand new world class stadiums in Florida as well. Interestingly enough there were many legislators in Florida trying to pass a law a few months back where no tax dollars at all can be used for stadiums. I bet the chances of that law passing just got a lot better with Hurricane Irma. Las vegas is now talking about stealing the Tampa Bay Rays or the Oakland A's because both of their owners are shaking down their fans with threats of relocating if the tax payers don't belly up to the bar and buy them new stadiums. I say fuck em!!! Florida has the right idea. The only problem is that it needs to a NATIONAL law to work and not individual state laws. As long as there are locals like Vegas with bottomless pockets, the extortion will continue. Enough with the extortion already. Canada and the states need to pass these laws to end the shakedowns already. Let the billionaire owners use their own money. Robert Kraft shown back in 2002 that it CAN be done. Its high time the tax payers told the owners that using their own money is the way that it WILL be done.

Well said!!!

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Globe editorial: Calgary Flames to city: Pay up or we’ll drop dead

58 minutes ago

Tactics and strategy are related but different things; the Calgary Flames appear to be undermining the latter by over-playing the former in their negotiations for a new taxpayer-funded arena.

Their miscalculations should ultimately constitute good news for the City of Calgary and its ratepayers.

Here's what we know so far about the $555-million proposal. The city is offering $30-million in free land, free demolition of the existing Saddledome, and basically a free loan – in the form of a $130-million repayable contribution – plus broad control of revenues; there's also new infrastructure for the surrounding area.

Yes, gullible politicians in U.S. cities regularly offer even more generous packages to pro sports franchises. But smart, responsible stewards of the public purse here have nothing to gain from imitating fools.

And yet Mayor Naheed Nenshi is being slammed by the Flames for presenting what is, by any accounting, a sweet election-year offer. It's way too generous. Taxpayers don't need to subsidize billionaire owners and millionaire employees.

But in the Flames telling, it's nowhere near enough. Flames president Ken King claims the club will ultimately end up footing "120 per cent" of the bill. That's highly debatable.

The city offers the sky; the team wants them to throw in the stars and the oceans and the mountains, too.

The Flames don't wish to pay any rent or property tax. They want free transit for fans on game night and not to pay for a police presence. In addition, they would very much enjoy having what sounds suspiciously like a veto over the eventual development of the area around the new barn.

Here's a foolproof way to control a project: Pay for it. That's not how professional sports teams tend to do business, of course.

Mostly they get their way, as evidenced by ill-advised recent decisions to publicly fund new arenas in Edmonton and Quebec City. Mr. King insists "this is no money grab" but the numbers show that's a hollow denial.


He said the team will release the details of its own arena proposal next week. It will doubtless involve an even larger infusion of public money. Mr. Nenshi and the council should ignore it.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinio ... ice=mobile

[CDN_PATRIOT]

Thanos Thanos:

Nenshi is exactly the same type of needy baby that Trump is, tantruming when the attention isn't on him and doing whatever he can to wreck things just to make sure all eyes are always on him.

How in the hell did he get it for a second term anyways??? (Seems he's going for a third as well )

-J.

[BeaverFever]

CDN_PATRIOT CDN_PATRIOT:

Thanos Thanos:

Nenshi is exactly the same type of needy baby that Trump is, tantruming when the attention isn't on him and doing whatever he can to wreck things just to make sure all eyes are always on him.

How in the hell did he get it for a second term anyways??? (Seems he's going for a third as well )

-J.

Those damn pesky democratic elections.

[bootlegga]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

Globe editorial: Calgary Flames to city: Pay up or we’ll drop dead

58 minutes ago

Tactics and strategy are related but different things; the Calgary Flames appear to be undermining the latter by over-playing the former in their negotiations for a new taxpayer-funded arena.

Their miscalculations should ultimately constitute good news for the City of Calgary and its ratepayers.

Here's what we know so far about the $555-million proposal. The city is offering $30-million in free land, free demolition of the existing Saddledome, and basically a free loan – in the form of a $130-million repayable contribution – plus broad control of revenues; there's also new infrastructure for the surrounding area.

Yes, gullible politicians in U.S. cities regularly offer even more generous packages to pro sports franchises. But smart, responsible stewards of the public purse here have nothing to gain from imitating fools.

And yet Mayor Naheed Nenshi is being slammed by the Flames for presenting what is, by any accounting, a sweet election-year offer. It's way too generous. Taxpayers don't need to subsidize billionaire owners and millionaire employees.

But in the Flames telling, it's nowhere near enough. Flames president Ken King claims the club will ultimately end up footing "120 per cent" of the bill. That's highly debatable.

The city offers the sky; the team wants them to throw in the stars and the oceans and the mountains, too.

The Flames don't wish to pay any rent or property tax. They want free transit for fans on game night and not to pay for a police presence. In addition, they would very much enjoy having what sounds suspiciously like a veto over the eventual development of the area around the new barn.

Here's a foolproof way to control a project: Pay for it. That's not how professional sports teams tend to do business, of course.

Mostly they get their way, as evidenced by ill-advised recent decisions to publicly fund new arenas in Edmonton and Quebec City. Mr. King insists "this is no money grab" but the numbers show that's a hollow denial.


He said the team will release the details of its own arena proposal next week. It will doubtless involve an even larger infusion of public money. Mr. Nenshi and the council should ignore it.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinio ... ice=mobile

The article is correct until it mentioned Edmonton.

I was not a fan of Rogers Place, but the financing for it is largely based on user fees and increased property taxes downtown (along with a hundred million or so from Katz). Therefore, if I never go to an event there - and I doubt I will anytime soon - I'm not paying for it.

To me, that's how these projects should be financed - by those who want and use them.