[Newsbot]

Title: Flames no longer looking for new arena in Calgary: Ken King
Category: Sports
Posted By: Freakinoldguy
Date: 2017-09-12 23:39:52
Canadian

[Freakinoldguy]

I guess we can start the pool to see where in the states the Flames end up. My guess would be that since Bettman can't be swayed from his misguided notion of moving teams to American cities that don't want to and can't support hockey that they'll be back in Atlanta before 2019.

[Strutz]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

I guess we can start the pool to see where in the states the Flames end up. My guess would be that since Bettman can't be swayed from his misguided notion of moving teams to American cities that don't want to and can't support hockey that they'll be back in Atlanta before 2019.

That would be very crappy.

[Thanos]

Nenshi's as much of a narcissist as Trump is. Maybe not as malignant and dangerous but still in the same vein, all insincere smiles, arrogance, bragging, and self-adoration. This idiot and his ego are going to cost us our hockey team.

[BRAH]

The Flames do leave one of the biggest rivalries in professional sports The Battle of Alberta will be lost, thanks Calgarians who elected Mayor Dumbass.

[Thanos]

You should read the comments on Facebook, Twitter, CBC, and other places on the rubber-chicken circuit. It's insane how genuinely stupid most people are now. "Oh, let them leave, the Coyotes/Hurricanes/whoever will just move here then for a guaranteed 19000 seats per game". Right, like Bettman won't fight them tooth and nail if they want to come to Calgary, and like they won't want a new arena anyway before they'd even consider changing cities.

How do you deal with anyone that clueless about basic business economics that thinks that way? If a team leaves a city in this era they're gone for good. Even Los Angeles went an entire generation without a NFL franchise because the league decided that using the old Olympic Colosseum was no longer an option. Perfect non-violent example of how the pandemic of deep and genuine stupidity is destroying the world around us. If fans want teams in their cities then it doesn't come for free.

[Freakinoldguy]

Thanos Thanos:

You should read th[*]e comments on Facebook, Twitter, CBC, and other places on the rubber-chicken circuit. It's insane how genuinely stupid most people are now. "Oh, let them leave, the Coyotes/Hurricanes/whoever will just move here then for a guaranteed 19000 seats per game". Right, like Bettman won't fight them tooth and nail if they want to come to Calgary, and like they won't want a new arena anyway before they'd even consider changing cities.

How do you deal with anyone that clueless about basic business economics that thinks that way? If a team leaves a city in this era they're gone for good. Even Los Angeles went an entire generation without a NFL franchise because the league decided that using the old Olympic Colosseum was no longer an option. Perfect non-violent example of how the pandemic of deep and genuine stupidity is destroying the world around us. If fans want teams in their cities then it doesn't come for free.

And if the Flames think the Saddle Dome is to old to be functional why in the fek would any other team move to Calgary and willingly suffer the same problem.

You're right, people are idiots and if they think that they can add a team by subtracting one and it goes to show just how out of touch people are with the realities of the business of pro sports.

But one thing I agree with is the fact that the costs of these facilities is becoming to much of a burden for any taxpayer to pay and the 1.8 billion dollars that the CalgaryNEXT arena could possibly cost is well out of the realm of reality. FFS the Oakland Raiders who play in the "I've got the biggest dick stadium owners league" are getting a new Stadium in Las Vegas for 1.9 billion dollars a mere million more than the proposed Calgary arena. WTF?

[Thanos]

CalgaryNEXT included a new football stadium, community sports facilities, hotels, housing, and a whole bunch of other goodies that would have essentially rebuilt the entire west end of downtown. Hence the price tag. It also had far superior roadways going into the complex, as opposed to the non-stop red light traffic signals in and around Stampede Park. A stand-alone hockey/concert arena would probably cost about the same as Rogers Place in Edmonton did, between $600 and 700 million.

Nenshi kiboshed the entire idea without even letting it be submitted to committee for study. That was what set off the fight between him and the Flames, that he sandbagged them on purpose for his own ends to make himself look the hero with this "no public dollars!" crap that appeals to meatheads. No mention at all, of course, of the endless economic offshoots (like in property taxes alone) that the city would have ended up collecting over the forty-year lifespan of the CalgaryNEXT development. Or the simply aesthetic value gained by the west part of downtown finally becoming noticeable for something more than just a grubby Greyhound bus terminal, some parking lots, and a couple of car dealerships.

This is Calgary. For all the "dynamic" talk we're no different than any other city in Canada. No vision, no sense of doing something really big that stands out, just the ugly little peevishness that always rises to the surface the second anyone (like the Flames organization) proposes doing something really great.

[BRAH]

Thanos Thanos:

You should read the comments on Facebook, Twitter, CBC, and other places on the rubber-chicken circuit. It's insane how genuinely stupid most people are now. "Oh, let them leave, the Coyotes/Hurricanes/whoever will just move here then for a guaranteed 19000 seats per game". Right, like Bettman won't fight them tooth and nail if they want to come to Calgary, and like they won't want a new arena anyway before they'd even consider changing cities.

How do you deal with anyone that clueless about basic business economics that thinks that way? If a team leaves a city in this era they're gone for good. Even Los Angeles went an entire generation without a NFL franchise because the league decided that using the old Olympic Colosseum was no longer an option. Perfect non-violent example of how the pandemic of deep and genuine stupidity is destroying the world around us. If fans want teams in their cities then it doesn't come for free.

It's the same nimby attitude that was against Edmonton's Downtown arena who couldn't see the bigger picture. Funny how these fools have no problem with spending $500,000 on so called art and don't the mentality to see the bigger picture of what a new arena could do.

[BeaverFever]

I'm not a fan of subsidizing sports teams generally, let alive aggressive extortion demands like this one. I mean listen to how this deal is described:

$1:

The owners of the Calgary Flames are demanding Alberta's largest city pay for a significant chunk of a proposed new arena and exempt the NHL club from property taxes and rent, all while refusing to open their books as the two sides negotiate, according to a municipal insider.

The club's proposal does not include sharing profits or repaying the city for any contribution it may make toward building a new facility in Calgary's Victoria Park, the source said. The new facility will cost around $500-million, multiple city hall sources said. The Flames asked the city to cover well more than one-third of the bill, the source told The Globe and Mail.

Funny how the same people who shriek against any public funding for the arts will give away any amount of public money to subsidize any sports team without question. If the team is making billions of dollars they "deserve" the handout. If the team is losing billions they "need" the handout. Yet it's the opposite with any art. If there's any doubt which is more valuable, somebody quickly name me a single sports score from the time of Shakespeare or Michelangelo or Mozart

I am a fan of the CFL but generally I think of sports as nothing but meaningless and mindless entertainment. Even a reality TV show or vapid soap opera has more relevance. At least when Alien archeologists discover those episode tapes thousands of years from now, they'll understand why the human race became extinct. The old sports scores aren't going to reveal much however.

[Thanos]

The team isn't making or losing billions. They're doing OK, depending if they make a playoff run, in a league that's making billions before taxes.

Keep in mind that a lot of what's being said here is coming from a local and national media that's pretty much overwhelmingly pro-Nenshi. And that's even when it's clear according to the timeline that Nenshi started this war with the Flames when he unilaterally dismissed, out of hand and without any thoughtful discussion, the CalgaryNEXT sports & entertainment complex that would have been the greatest sports & commericial development that this city (and maybe even the entire country) ever saw. It would have cemented the long-term economic health of the Flames, the Stampeders, provided a venue for smaller sports, and quite possibly even have led to Calgary getting a MLS soccer team one day. What's happened in the last two days is merely the Flames fighting back against a mayor who's sandbagged them and backstabbed them since day one when it came to a new arena being built.

Any of you other cities want Nenshi? You can have him. He is not what he seems and in due course each and every one of you would get to see for yourselves what an obnoxious and malicious preening jackass of a politician he truly is.

[N_Fiddledog]

Yeah Beave, who needs another Stanley Cup when you could have something like this:



'Gateway to the city': Art installation unveiled at Trans-Canada Highway and Bowfort Road N.W.

[N_Fiddledog]

Anyway, they're not asking taxpayers to foot the whole bill.

$1:

"[Some people ask], why don't you do the [private-funding] deal that was done in Toronto? Why don't you do the deal that was done in Montreal? If we had five million people, or four million people, we would do those deals," he said.

In previous negotiations, the Flames management and the city discussed various funding formulas using a combination of public money, private money and revenue generated from ticket surcharges — which King pointed out is Flames revenue.

He said for situations comparable to Calgary, the most obvious — and recent — parallel is Edmonton where the $600-million Rogers Place opened in 2016 through a mixture of private and public funding.

"Like Edmonton, when you have a million and a half [person] city — which is a very marginal city in which to run a CFL football club, an NHL team, a junior hockey team and a lacrosse team, that's kind of the minimum standard," he said. "Both here and in the U.S., you have a private-public partnership.

"It did happen, I think quite successfully, in Edmonton, and it would appear that maybe it's not going to happen here," he said.​

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/k ... -1.4287118

[bootlegga]

Calgary is welcome to Northlands Coliseum if they can afford the moving costs...

https://twitter.com/Isuckatpicking/status/908035283706290176

[rickc]

Thanos Thanos:

CalgaryNEXT included a new football stadium, community sports facilities, hotels, housing, and a whole bunch of other goodies that would have essentially rebuilt the entire west end of downtown. Hence the price tag. It also had far superior roadways going into the complex, as opposed to the non-stop red light traffic signals in and around Stampede Park. A stand-alone hockey/concert arena would probably cost about the same as Rogers Place in Edmonton did, between $600 and 700 million.

Nenshi kiboshed the entire idea without even letting it be submitted to committee for study. That was what set off the fight between him and the Flames, that he sandbagged them on purpose for his own ends to make himself look the hero with this "no public dollars!" crap that appeals to meatheads. No mention at all, of course, of the endless economic offshoots (like in property taxes alone) that the city would have ended up collecting over the forty-year lifespan of the CalgaryNEXT development. Or the simply aesthetic value gained by the west part of downtown finally becoming noticeable for something more than just a grubby Greyhound bus terminal, some parking lots, and a couple of car dealerships.

This is Calgary. For all the "dynamic" talk we're no different than any other city in Canada. No vision, no sense of doing something really big that stands out, just the ugly little peevishness that always rises to the surface the second anyone (like the Flames organization) proposes doing something really great.

I can't figure you out. You spend a lot of time on this forum bitching about how the greedy rich man is always screwing over the little guy. Then you do a complete 360 and tell us how Calgary whose economy has taken a steel toe boot to the nut sack, (Calgary lost 12,500 jobs in 2016) should spend billions of dollars building a new stadium for owners who themselves are billionaires. Murray Edwards and Clay Riddell are Billionaires. The rest of the Flames owners aren't doing too bad themselves. Calgary had the worst unemployment rate in Canada for over a year. I think that a city where almost one in ten people are out of work has bigger problems than spending billions of dollars making some fat cats even fatter. Let them pay for their own damn stadium. Robert Kraft did!!! He spent his own money to build Gillette Stadium. The Patriots have gone on to become the second most valuable team in the NFL money wise, and the most successful team on the field by far. Him spending his own money did not hurt the team one bit.

Whats all this whining about a stadium being to old anyway? Fenway park was built in 1912. I don't hear anyone in Boston whining about a new stadium. Lambeau field was built in 1957. No talk of a new stadium whatsoever. They have a 30 year waiting list for season tickets. What real Flames fan is saying that they are not going to the game because the arena is to old? No one!!! Ever!!! The Flames had the 10th highest attendance rate in the NHL. The average attendence at Scotiabank saddledome is 3000 short of Chicago. Chicago has over twice the population of Calgary and they have a team that is older and more storied than the flames (not to mention that they have won multiple Stanley Cups in the decade that we are presently in). The flames average attendence is only 562 short of maximum capacity. That is fucking phenomenal for a city that had Canada's highest unemployment rate!!! You can't tell me people are not going to the games, because they are.

We in Vegas can afford to steal sports teams with the promise of new stadiums because the bonds are financed by adding an additional tax on hotel rooms. In other words it does not cost me a dime out of my pocket. The tourist pay all of it. Florida is in the same league. A small addittional tourist tax could finance brand new world class stadiums in Florida as well. Interestingly enough there were many legislators in Florida trying to pass a law a few months back where no tax dollars at all can be used for stadiums. I bet the chances of that law passing just got a lot better with Hurricane Irma. Las vegas is now talking about stealing the Tampa Bay Rays or the Oakland A's because both of their owners are shaking down their fans with threats of relocating if the tax payers don't belly up to the bar and buy them new stadiums. I say fuck em!!! Florida has the right idea. The only problem is that it needs to a NATIONAL law to work and not individual state laws. As long as there are locals like Vegas with bottomless pockets, the extortion will continue. Enough with the extortion already. Canada and the states need to pass these laws to end the shakedowns already. Let the billionaire owners use their own money. Robert Kraft shown back in 2002 that it CAN be done. Its high time the tax payers told the owners that using their own money is the way that it WILL be done.