[acidcomplex]

lily wrote:

However - I also believe that education is a ticket out of the rut that too many natives find themselves in.

Sorry, tough shit for them, THEY put themselves in that rut. Not up to me to dig it out

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

Donny...You are correct. The natives in Canada were never conquered. You entered into these treaties willingly. Both parties signed in good faith and yet, both parties broke those treaties one way or another thusly voiding those contracts.

Time to figure out who broke it first.

Both? Care to back that up with some sort of reference?

Seriously, I'm going to keep an open mind here if you could let me know what part of my treaty (4) that my people broke, either in spirit of in actual context.

And really, that is a good post because I think there would be many people like me willing to work together with you to come up with soloutions.

[PJB]

Treaty 4 includes the Opasqwayak Cree Nation, right across the river from where I grew up. This reserve was designated dry yet every day when I lived in The Pas countless natives brought alcohol on reserve in direct conflict with the treaty. Generalized, yes, but true as I witnessed countless times while part of the Ambulance service. Shall I continue?

[acidcomplex]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Both? Care to back that up with some sort of reference?

um?????

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Also, you can look these things up on your own, I’m sorry I don’t have the time to source every last word

[Brenda]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Maybe you should find some facts to back up that statement.

Do your own homework. And come with facts instead of your word. That is worth nothing.

Quote:

And possibly those facts should have some legal standing such as laws, treaties, historical documentation or even recent literary interpretations of our history together.
If you can find something to back up your claim that my life and my land is owed all to you out of charity and goodwill, and that at some instance in time me and my people were conquered, then I would love to read it and have the opportunity to digest it and respond.

I agree, come with something.

Quote:

In reality the national disgrace is your ignorance of the history of your own country and your willingness to dishonour the promises of your forefathers and the crown.

It's not my country (it's OUR country), and my forefathers didn't sign anything. Do your homework.

Quote:

And maybe you should look at the ramifications of ignoring our shared history. It is in the best interests of Canada that we hold her and you accountable for her actions.

We don't share any history. Again, do your homework.

Quote:

You are accountable for the treaties you signed.

So are you.

Quote:

You are accountable for the laws of your country.

So are you, or do you think you don't live in a country called Canada?

Quote:

It is pathetic and disgusting that you would turn your back on our shared history, you are not Canadian because you are white and have some inherent right to be here. You are Canadian because you inherit the responsibilities pass to you from our forefathers.

Again, do your homework. I am not Canadian.

Quote:

I am not conquered and I would stand in any Canadian court with the Canadian Constitution in my hand to prove so. It would be my pleasure to do so while you argue your reprehensible, bigoted, racist views to the judge and other educated people who know the true foundation of this country lies in our paths together.

Ah, so you "gave" "all your resources" and "land" to the "white"
Contradict yourself much?

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

Treaty 4 includes the Opasqwayak Cree Nation, right across the river from where I grew up. This reserve was designated dry yet every day when I lived in The Pas countless natives brought alcohol on reserve in direct conflict with the treaty. Generalized, yes, but true as I witnessed countless times while part of the Ambulance service. Shall I continue?

A) that is Treaty 5 territory, they are not part of Treaty 4

Quote:

Her Majesty further agrees with Her said Indians, that within the boundary
of Indian reserves, until otherwise determined by Her Government of the Dominion
of Canada, no intoxicating liquor shall be allowed to be introduced or sold,
and all laws now in force, or hereafter to be enacted, to preserve Her Indian
subjects inhabiting the reserves, or living elsewhere within Her North-west
Territories, from the evil influence of the use of intoxicating liquors, shall
be strictly enforced.

B) Such time was 1951 when that section of the Indian Act was in force thus making it legal for Indians to purchase liquor

C) I do not see any mention of Opaskwayak Cree Nation being a Dry Reserve anywhere.

D) After 1951 even if it were a dry reserve, it is a band bylaw and nothing to do with treaty.

So if you were driving ambulance prior to 1951 you might have a point. Of course you could look up when Manitoba actually voted that section 97 of the Indian act had no relevance in Manitoba and that the provincial Liquor control act applied to everyone- maybe you are right - but in Saskatchewan they wasted no time and we are still looking at 1951. I would bet a good chunk of change that it was close to 1951 in Manitoba as well.

Nice try, please keep trying.

[PJB]

List of Treaty 4 First Nations
Manitoba
Swampy Cree Tribal Council
Chemawawin Cree Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Grand Rapids First Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Marcel Colomb First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Mathias Colomb First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Mosakahiken Cree Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Opaskwayak Cree Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Sapotaweyak Cree Nation
Wuskwi Sipihk First Nation
West Region Tribal Council
Ebb and Flow First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
Gamblers First Nation
Keeseekoowenin First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
O-Chi-Chak-Ko-Sipi First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
Pine Creek First Nation
Rolling River First Nation
Skownan First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
Tootinaowaziibeeng Treaty Reserve First Nation
independent
Waywayseecappo First Nation
Saskatchewan
File Hills Qu'Appelle Tribal Council
Carry The Kettle First Nation
Little Black Bear First Nation
Muscowpetung First Nation
Nekaneet First Nation
Okanese First Nation
Pasqua First Nation
Peepeekisis First Nation
Piapot First Nation
Standing Buffalo First Nation—non-Treaty signatory council member; included in Treaty 4
Star Blanket First Nation
Wood Mountain First Nation—non-Treaty signatory council member; included in Treaty 4
Saskatoon Tribal Council
Kinistin First Nation
Mistawasis First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Muskeg Lake First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Muskoday First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
One Arrow First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Whitecap Dakota First Nation—non-Treaty signatory council member
Yellow Quill First Nation
Touchwood Agency Tribal Council
Day Star First Nation
Fishing Lake First Nation
Gordon First Nation
Kawacatoose First Nation
Muskowekwan First Nation
Yorkton Tribal Administration
Cote First Nation
Kahkewistahaw First Nation
Keeseekoose First Nation
Ocean Man First Nation—Treaty 4 signatory though in Treaty 2 area
Sakimay First Nations
The Key First Nation
independent
Cowessess First Nation
Ochapowace First Nation
Pheasant Rump Nakota First Nation—Treaty 4 signatory though in Treaty 2 area
White Bear First Nation—Treaty 4 signatory though in Treaty 2 area


Read the wording of the treaties. Alcohol is NOT allowed on Reserves!

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Maybe you should find some facts to back up that statement.

Do your own homework. And come with facts instead of your word. That is worth nothing.

Quote:

And possibly those facts should have some legal standing such as laws, treaties, historical documentation or even recent literary interpretations of our history together.
If you can find something to back up your claim that my life and my land is owed all to you out of charity and goodwill, and that at some instance in time me and my people were conquered, then I would love to read it and have the opportunity to digest it and respond.

I agree, come with something.

Quote:

In reality the national disgrace is your ignorance of the history of your own country and your willingness to dishonour the promises of your forefathers and the crown.

It's not my country (it's OUR country), and my forefathers didn't sign anything. Do your homework.

Quote:

And maybe you should look at the ramifications of ignoring our shared history. It is in the best interests of Canada that we hold her and you accountable for her actions.

We don't share any history. Again, do your homework.

Quote:

You are accountable for the treaties you signed.

So are you.

Quote:

You are accountable for the laws of your country.

So are you, or do you think you don't live in a country called Canada?

Quote:

It is pathetic and disgusting that you would turn your back on our shared history, you are not Canadian because you are white and have some inherent right to be here. You are Canadian because you inherit the responsibilities pass to you from our forefathers.

Again, do your homework. I am not Canadian.

Quote:

I am not conquered and I would stand in any Canadian court with the Canadian Constitution in my hand to prove so. It would be my pleasure to do so while you argue your reprehensible, bigoted, racist views to the judge and other educated people who know the true foundation of this country lies in our paths together.

Ah, so you "gave" "all your resources" and "land" to the "white"
Contradict yourself much?

Should I post the section of the Canadian Constitution where my rights were enshrined in 1982 as a Treaty Indian? Or can you look that up yourself without much trouble.

Furthermore my grandfather served in Holland alongside thousands of other brave Canadians. Many of our First Nations people fought to save you and your people, yet when they returned home were denied the benefits and rights as the other Canadians. So while you were thanking the Canadians for saving your country, our people were denied anything that the other Air, Land and Sea forces received. Our grandfathers fought alongside your grandfathers and many of them died to protect you and Canada.

It took until 2000 for Canada to step up and offer the survivors of that war, WW1, the Boer War and the Korean War a little something in recognition. So while other military personnel got land and grants and a pension, our grandfathers who fought side by side with the White Canadians were sent home to live in poverty.

Are you ok with that?

[acidcomplex]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

PJB wrote:

Treaty 4 includes the Opasqwayak Cree Nation, right across the river from where I grew up. This reserve was designated dry yet every day when I lived in The Pas countless natives brought alcohol on reserve in direct conflict with the treaty. Generalized, yes, but true as I witnessed countless times while part of the Ambulance service. Shall I continue?

A) that is Treaty 5 territory, they are not part of Treaty 4

Quote:

Her Majesty further agrees with Her said Indians, that within the boundary
of Indian reserves, until otherwise determined by Her Government of the Dominion
of Canada, no intoxicating liquor shall be allowed to be introduced or sold,
and all laws now in force, or hereafter to be enacted, to preserve Her Indian
subjects inhabiting the reserves, or living elsewhere within Her North-west
Territories, from the evil influence of the use of intoxicating liquors, shall
be strictly enforced.

B) Such time was 1951 when that section of the Indian Act was in force thus making it legal for Indians to purchase liquor

C) I do not see any mention of Opaskwayak Cree Nation being a Dry Reserve anywhere.

D) After 1951 even if it were a dry reserve, it is a band bylaw and nothing to do with treaty.

So if you were driving ambulance prior to 1951 you might have a point. Of course you could look up when Manitoba actually voted that section 97 of the Indian act had no relevance in Manitoba and that the provincial Liquor control act applied to everyone- maybe you are right - but in Saskatchewan they wasted no time and we are still looking at 1951. I would bet a good chunk of change that it was close to 1951 in Manitoba as well.

Nice try, please keep trying.

well its a good thing your not biased towards umm Indian power!!!? pfft, give me a break, you make me laugh all the way to my house ,which is on "your land" that i "stole" from the chief while he was passed out in his hut. Get off your "Indians are owed everything and should be given everything" crusade and realize that shit isn't like it was back then, blacks can ride at the front of the bus, women can vote. Get off your ass stop whining and really do something if your so worried about the "white man" ruining your lives.

[Brenda]

I am grateful for EVERY soldier who stood there at the time they were most needed, like many people are grateful for my grandfather who was in the Resistance (or "het Verzet"). Do you seriously think I want a medal for his work?
Exactly.

I don't do guilttrips Donny! Sorry!

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

List of Treaty 4 First Nations
Manitoba
Swampy Cree Tribal Council
Chemawawin Cree Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Grand Rapids First Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Marcel Colomb First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Mathias Colomb First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Mosakahiken Cree Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Opaskwayak Cree Nation—Treaty 5 signatory council member
Sapotaweyak Cree Nation
Wuskwi Sipihk First Nation
West Region Tribal Council
Ebb and Flow First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
Gamblers First Nation
Keeseekoowenin First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
O-Chi-Chak-Ko-Sipi First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
Pine Creek First Nation
Rolling River First Nation
Skownan First Nation—Treaty 2 signatory council member
Tootinaowaziibeeng Treaty Reserve First Nation
independent
Waywayseecappo First Nation
Saskatchewan
File Hills Qu'Appelle Tribal Council
Carry The Kettle First Nation
Little Black Bear First Nation
Muscowpetung First Nation
Nekaneet First Nation
Okanese First Nation
Pasqua First Nation
Peepeekisis First Nation
Piapot First Nation
Standing Buffalo First Nation—non-Treaty signatory council member; included in Treaty 4
Star Blanket First Nation
Wood Mountain First Nation—non-Treaty signatory council member; included in Treaty 4
Saskatoon Tribal Council
Kinistin First Nation
Mistawasis First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Muskeg Lake First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Muskoday First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
One Arrow First Nation—Treaty 6 signatory council member
Whitecap Dakota First Nation—non-Treaty signatory council member
Yellow Quill First Nation
Touchwood Agency Tribal Council
Day Star First Nation
Fishing Lake First Nation
Gordon First Nation
Kawacatoose First Nation
Muskowekwan First Nation
Yorkton Tribal Administration
Cote First Nation
Kahkewistahaw First Nation
Keeseekoose First Nation
Ocean Man First Nation—Treaty 4 signatory though in Treaty 2 area
Sakimay First Nations
The Key First Nation
independent
Cowessess First Nation
Ochapowace First Nation
Pheasant Rump Nakota First Nation—Treaty 4 signatory though in Treaty 2 area
White Bear First Nation—Treaty 4 signatory though in Treaty 2 area


Read the wording of the treaties. Alcohol is NOT allowed on Reserves!

Yes you are right, but only until 1951 when the Indian Act was changed to allow provinces to regulate liquor off reserve and bands to choose whether to allow it. The text of the Treaty allows that change – if you read the bolded print I left for you in that quote.

Quote:

until otherwise determined by Her Government of the Dominion of Canada

The alterations to the Indian Act of 1951 allowed Indians to be actual citizens of Canada rather than wards of the state.

Furthermore if you look closely at your quote and do some research you will note that that band is a Treaty 5 signatory, not Treaty 4.

[Brenda]

Quote:

The alterations to the Indian Act of 1951 allowed Indians to be actual citizens of Canada rather than wards of the state.

Which should make them equal to all citizens... So why the "demands"?

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

I am grateful for EVERY soldier who stood there at the time they were most needed, like many people are grateful for my grandfather who was in the Resistance (or "het Verzet"). Do you seriously think I want a medal for his work?
Exactly.

I don't do guilttrips Donny! Sorry!

Native people actually volunteered and were not conscripted to fight, and had a participation rate at the same level as the regular Canadian population.

He did get a metal recently from the Dutch Consulate.

I just think that this treatment of Canada's Indian people reflects on many other aspects of our contribution to this society and yours.

Maybe there would be a few less of our people in poverty if things like this did not happen. If you multiply situations like this over and over perhaps our people and our communities would not be in such desperate shape now.

[PJB]

My apologies Donny...You are correct. btw..It was only a few years ago when OCN was changed from a dry reserve. I know when I lived there they were still a dry reserve and that was only 14 years ago.

(I hate this keyboard)

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

Quote:

The alterations to the Indian Act of 1951 allowed Indians to be actual citizens of Canada rather than wards of the state.

Which should make them equal to all citizens... So why the "demands"?

That does not erase our rights under Treaty.

Also, don;t you think as a "citizen" our Veterans deserve the same treatment as other Canadian Veterans? Why should we have to demand? It makes no sense.