[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

My apologies Donny...You are correct. btw..It was only a few years ago when OCN was changed from a dry reserve. I know when I lived there they were still a dry reserve and that was only 14 years ago.

(I hate this keyboard)

Fair enough, I'll take your word for it.

But being dry today is a band bylaw, not a section under the Indian Act and contravention of that bylaw has nothing to do with Treaty.

And I'm responding to you and Brenda as fast as I can.

And I'm ignoring acidcomplex if you have not noticed.

[jason700]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Actually that amount is probably low.

I think he has a point, you can keep paying for eternity or help solve the problem.

Once the standard of living for both Natives and non-natives is the same I think we have accomplished what the treaties were intended for, to share the wealth of this land as partners. So then I think my great, great, great, great, great grandchildren's great grandchildren should rip up their treaty cards.

Or just borrow the money and pay us off today, I bet you could get a great interest rate.

Exactly Donny, but why do you want to wait for your great, great, great, great, greatchildren's great grandchildren to do it? Why should it take so long?

Things as they are right now are NOT WORKING. So why are you so unwilling to work with us to help get your people to that same standard of living faster?

[Donny_Brasco]

I am willing. But we do it together as equals. Not you telling us what to do.

The native welfare bums and alcoholics and deadbeats make me sick and ashamed. But I know the history and I understand why they are like that.

There are many good qualities in our communities too, and good people who are trying to help. And we can't fix some of these fucked up people today, but next generation and the one after we have a chance.

I don't know the exact path but I know the general direction.

[Brenda]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Quote:

The alterations to the Indian Act of 1951 allowed Indians to be actual citizens of Canada rather than wards of the state.

Which should make them equal to all citizens... So why the "demands"?

That does not erase our rights under Treaty.

Also, don;t you think as a "citizen" our Veterans deserve the same treatment as other Canadian Veterans? Why should we have to demand? It makes no sense.

I think that when you choose to live in a secluded Reserve, demanding your own government, you should accept the fact you won't be treated as "citizen". If you keep playing the "Native" card every time, you are making yourself not a "citizen" but a "Native".

Of course you have the right to be treated like every other citizen. And you will have your duty to act like one. It is "either - or", not "and - and".

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

Of course you have the right to be treated like every other citizen. And you will have your duty to act like one. It is "either - or", not "and - and".

Good. Then I want my contract with the Canadian government honoured to the fullest extent and to my fullest advantage because that is what any other Canadian would get.

[Brenda]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Brenda wrote:

Of course you have the right to be treated like every other citizen. And you will have your duty to act like one. It is "either - or", not "and - and".

Good. Then I want my contract with the Canadian government honoured to the fullest extent and to my fullest advantage because that is what any other Canadian would get.

MY contract with the Canadian government says I have to abide by the law of the country, and that I am not eligible for any "handout" (as in welfare etc...).
Then again, I am not a citizen, and not demanding it either

ANY other Canadian doesn't get "free" education. Or a special "white man"-worker. I mean... get real...

What contract with the government does a citizen have, other than obey the law, right to vote, right to education (no free education ), etc etc?

[PJB]

I think that all Donny wants is an equal opportunity to succeed. Of course there are certain rights that natives have that the rest of Canada but they also have restrictions. IE Not being allowed to own property on reserve thusly restricting their access to mortgages or loans based on collateral.

[Brenda]

PJB wrote:

I think that all Donny wants is an equal opportunity to suceed. Of course there are certain rights that natives have that the rest of Canada but they also have restrictions. IE Not being allowed to own property on reserve thusly restricting their access to mortgages or loans based on collateral.

I want an equal opportunity to succeed too. Work for it, like millions do.

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

PJB wrote:

I think that all Donny wants is an equal opportunity to suceed. Of course there are certain rights that natives have that the rest of Canada but they also have restrictions. IE Not being allowed to own property on reserve thusly restricting their access to mortgages or loans based on collateral.

I want an equal opportunity to succeed too. Work for it, like millions do.

You know we ask people too, and sometimes they do.

And then they have to put up with ignorant assholes like you and would rather quit and live in poverty and on welfare then listen to you bitch.

And putting up with people like you makes me think that it serves you right that you have to pay to support a sub-class of people who you put there and keep there...just so you can lie to yourself that there is actually a lower life form in the universe then a ignorant, intolerant white person.

We both know there isn't. So let us up.

[Brenda]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Brenda wrote:

PJB wrote:

I think that all Donny wants is an equal opportunity to suceed. Of course there are certain rights that natives have that the rest of Canada but they also have restrictions. IE Not being allowed to own property on reserve thusly restricting their access to mortgages or loans based on collateral.

I want an equal opportunity to succeed too. Work for it, like millions do.

You know we ask people too, and sometimes they do.

And then they have to put up with ignorant assholes like you and would rather quit and live in poverty and on welfare then listen to you bitch.

And putting up with people like you makes me think that it serves you right that you have to pay to support a sub-class of people who you put there and keep there...just so you can lie to yourself that there is actually a lower life form in the universe then a ignorant, intolerant white person.

We both know there isn't. So let us up.

The moment you called me an ignorant asshole was the moment you lost this discussion.

Ya know Donny... YOU are a sub-class. "The Natives" are not. You, the individual, are.

[PJB]

C'mon kids...Play nice!

[Brenda]

Sorry. Not anymore.
It's a two way street. Again, Donny proved that for him, it is not.

[PJB]

One should not take things personally on here. I really don't think that personal insults do any good whatsoever. I know that I have gone down that road and I refuse to do it anymore.

[Brenda]

PJB wrote:

One should not take things personally on here. I really don't think that personal insults do any good whatsoever. I know that I have gone down that road and I refuse to do it anymore.

I am not taking it personally. If I walked into him tomorrow, I could easily drink a beer with him, no problem. But I refuse to put energy in a discussion that he ended already.

[uwish]

well

as a "WASP" I feel sometimes like we are hostages for things that didn't happen in my lifetime.

We need to finger out a way to break the cycle of violence and dependency that plague many aboriginals. I do agree that education is the key to this however, we have been sponsoring aboriginals for post secondary education for how long now??

Sure it helps a few but many do not take advantage of it OR do not finish high school to be able to take advantage of it.

So what is the solution?? And I don't think more money is the answer, we have 35 years of that to prove it isn't working.