[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

Donny..When I am paying for it I demand to know that it is being spent where it should be. It is called accountability! A word that many native chiefs do not grasp or tend to ignore! I would think that the very students that are smart enough to attend University and are denied because the band misspent the funds designated for them would stand up and say something but they listen to the likes of you that insist that the rest of Canada should just come up with more cash!

Actually there is plenty of accountability. There are reports upon reports that need to be filed to INAC and the feds. You wonder where all the money is going and insist on accountability that is already there...then some redneck MP gets the impression that there is no accountability and gets us filling another report out that generally never gets read.

There are 700-800 bands in Canada, and in general 85% of them are pretty good at being accountable. 10-13% need third party help and a few are complete fuckups.

Your money, in general, instead of getting to kids who want education, is being spent on the endless reports you want to make sure the money is getting where it is going...and it isn't when we have to pay $100,000 a year from my band to do these redundant reports that no one reads anyways because they know we have our shit wired tight.

Times that by lets say 600 bands they all have 2 people in their offices just filling out your reports - that's 600*100,000 = $60,000,000

My band could send another 200 kids through post secondary if we didn't have so many reports to fill our because rednecks like you hear about one or two bands that mess up and figure all of us Indians need to be more accountable.

You obviously have no clue besides what you read in the paper and/or talk to your buddies about.

And that is where your money is going. Every year we spend $60 million plus making sure that ne pennies fall through the cracks, would you like to spend more?

[PJB]

That's it Donny..Blame me if it makes you feel better. I asked you a question about the selection process and you answer that it is none of my business, well then, if it is none of my business then I don't care how many native kids attend post-secondary education for how many years do get a degree in 'I don't know what I want to be when I grow up yet because I am native it is my right to waste this time'!

[Brenda]

I haven't seen any links from Donny to back up his numbers. Whihch means we should trust him on his beautiful brown eyes... I don't think so either...

[roger-roger]

Ya I think he needs to throw a few .76s or 506s in there to make it look realisitc

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

That's it Donny..Blame me if it makes you feel better. I asked you a question about the selection process and you answer that it is none of my business, well then, if it is none of my business then I don't care how many native kids attend post-secondary education for how many years do get a degree in 'I don't know what I want to be when I grow up yet because I am native it is my right to waste this time'!

Well, we are not asking for your permission. I am trying to educate you on my point of view. The time has passed when Indians need to ask for what we were promised. If you can't see the integrity of abiding by your own laws and promises then I am not surprised.

Also, you can look these things up on your own, I’m sorry I don’t have the time to source every last word, mind you I don’t think you’ve held yourself to the same standards as your holding me…I have yet to see one quote or link that contradicts anything I’ve posted here.

Serenity now - you know the words.

[Brenda]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

PJB wrote:

That's it Donny..Blame me if it makes you feel better. I asked you a question about the selection process and you answer that it is none of my business, well then, if it is none of my business then I don't care how many native kids attend post-secondary education for how many years do get a degree in 'I don't know what I want to be when I grow up yet because I am native it is my right to waste this time'!

Well, we are not asking for your permission. I am trying to educate you on my point of view. The time has passed when Indians need to ask for what we were promised. If you can't see the integrity of abiding by your own laws and promises then I am not surprised.

Which is EXACTLY the point. YOUR point of view. We are not really interested in your point of view. We want facts.

Quote:

Also, you can look these things up on your own, I’m sorry I don’t have the time to source every last word, mind you I don’t think you’ve held yourself to the same standards as your holding me…I have yet to see one quote or link that contradicts anything I’ve posted here.

Serenity now - you know the words.

Not gonna do your home work for you. (huh, the irony...)

[Donny_Brasco]

Challange me with facts, then at least I have a starting point.

[uwish]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

PJB wrote:

Donny..When I am paying for it I demand to know that it is being spent where it should be. It is called accountability! A word that many native chiefs do not grasp or tend to ignore! I would think that the very students that are smart enough to attend University and are denied because the band misspent the funds designated for them would stand up and say something but they listen to the likes of you that insist that the rest of Canada should just come up with more cash!

Actually there is plenty of accountability. There are reports upon reports that need to be filed to INAC and the feds. You wonder where all the money is going and insist on accountability that is already there...then some redneck MP gets the impression that there is no accountability and gets us filling another report out that generally never gets read.

There are 700-800 bands in Canada, and in general 85% of them are pretty good at being accountable. 10-13% need third party help and a few are complete fuckups.

Your money, in general, instead of getting to kids who want education, is being spent on the endless reports you want to make sure the money is getting where it is going...and it isn't when we have to pay $100,000 a year from my band to do these redundant reports that no one reads anyways because they know we have our shit wired tight.

Times that by lets say 600 bands they all have 2 people in their offices just filling out your reports - that's 600*100,000 = $60,000,000

My band could send another 200 kids through post secondary if we didn't have so many reports to fill our because rednecks like you hear about one or two bands that mess up and figure all of us Indians need to be more accountable.

You obviously have no clue besides what you read in the paper and/or talk to your buddies about.

And that is where your money is going. Every year we spend $60 million plus making sure that ne pennies fall through the cracks, would you like to spend more?

no over the past 30 years we have spent over 100 billion on the 'indian' issues. More money clearly isn't working.

Time to settle and rip up treaty cards.

[PJB]

uwish...You know that Donny is going to come back with 'that 100 Billion is merely rent on lands that we stole' or some there ridiculous assertion. And you better have a link to where that amount came from because you know he is going to ask.

[Zipperfish]

uwish wrote:

no over the past 30 years we have spent over 100 billion on the 'indian' issues. More money clearly isn't working.

Time to settle and rip up treaty cards.

Couldn't agree more wiht teh "more money isn't working" line. For all it's glamour, money has an abysmal record of solving problems. But the treaties can't be ripped up. They are documents signed by our governmetn with another, and Canada's honour is at stake there.

We could however, rip up the Indian Act. What if "Indian" were no longer defined, and band members could "emigrate" to Canada, or Canadians could "immigrate" into bands. Then First Nations would be more like regular nations--immigration based instead of race-based. That would be an interesting scenario.

[Donny_Brasco]

Actually that amount is probably low.

I think he has a point, you can keep paying for eternity or help solve the problem.

Once the standard of living for both Natives and non-natives is the same I think we have accomplished what the treaties were intended for, to share the wealth of this land as partners. So then I think my great, great, great, great, great grandchildren's great grandchildren should rip up their treaty cards.

Or just borrow the money and pay us off today, I bet you could get a great interest rate.

[Brenda]

Pay you off for what? Land you have never laid a claim on, but that you are issued by the grace of the nation? Bu the goodwill of the ancestors of your conquerors?


You're a disgrace to Canada. You should look after the best interest of Canada, not after your own little square ft of grass.
Bah.

[PJB]

Ok Donny..Let's say we pay you off. How much do you want? Enough to bankrupt the country? Better yet let's use the monetary values at the time the treaties were signed..Hell if we did that we would be demanding a refund. Remember it all comes down to interpretation.

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

Pay you off for what? Land you have never laid a claim on, but that you are issued by the grace of the nation? Bu the goodwill of the ancestors of your conquerors?


You're a disgrace to Canada. You should look after the best interest of Canada, not after your own little square ft of grass.
Bah.

Maybe you should find some facts to back up that statement.

And possibly those facts should have some legal standing such as laws, treaties, historical documentation or even recent literary interpretations of our history together.

If you can find something to back up your claim that my life and my land is owed all to you out of charity and goodwill, and that at some instance in time me and my people were conquered, then I would love to read it and have the opportunity to digest it and respond.

In reality the national disgrace is your ignorance of the history of your own country and your willingness to dishonour the promises of your forefathers and the crown.

And maybe you should look at the ramifications of ignoring our shared history. It is in the best interests of Canada that we hold her and you accountable for her actions.

You are accountable for the treaties you signed.

You are accountable for the laws of your country.

It is pathetic and disgusting that you would turn your back on our shared history, you are not Canadian because you are white and have some inherent right to be here. You are Canadian because you inherit the responsibilities pass to you from our forefathers.

I am not conquered and I would stand in any Canadian court with the Canadian Constitution in my hand to prove so. It would be my pleasure to do so while you argue your reprehensible, bigoted, racist views to the judge and other educated people who know the true foundation of this country lies in our paths together.

[Donny_Brasco]

PJB wrote:

Ok Donny..Let's say we pay you off. How much do you want? Enough to bankrupt the country? Better yet let's use the monetary values at the time the treaties were signed..Hell if we did that we would be demanding a refund. Remember it all comes down to interpretation.

Well calculate the entire land mass of Canada, determine fair market value for all of that land if, hypothetically you could sell it all, and then divide that by the number of Aboriginal people.

Then divide that by the number on average that area was covered by treaty. Then multiply that number by, oh lets say 25, that being the amount of time in years it would take to get our standards of living to be equal.

Then, just to be fair, take out Tony Merchant's 25% and I think you'd be pretty close. Plus I want a 1oz gold coin with my picture on it shaking the Queen's hand - and every Canadian gets one of those. And that is about it.

Who is good at math?