[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

That number is the $1.7 billion devided by 23,500 Native students, as I have stated in (I think) my second post on this thread.

Oh, it was my 1st post

Ya, but you have to agree that unless there are some tremendous capital expenditures that $72k a year is a little overboard.

That should be 2 BA's an MA and a PHD.

Where did you get that number?

[Brenda]

Quote:

The bottom line on aboriginal education
In its 2008-2009 budget, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada invested $1.7 billion in First Nations and Inuit education programs for an estimated 23,500 students.

Supporters of the online petition intend to give it to members of Parliament, who they hope will present it to Parliament in February.

“Why should you pay back a loan for something that is a right? We’ve paid many times over for our... resources.”

— Sagkeeng Chief Donavan Fontaine

The petition can be found online at www.cepn-fnec.com/petition/petition_e.aspx.

This is from the first post of this thread, way down to the end.

I agree with you that $72K is WAY overboard...

[Brenda]

herbie wrote:

How come none of you are arguing for free post secondary education for everyone?
That's "equal".
What's wrong with you?

I thought that is exactly what I am doing?

[herbie]

Brenda wrote:

herbie wrote:

How come none of you are arguing for free post secondary education for everyone?
That's "equal".
What's wrong with you?

I thought that is exactly what I am doing?

Not very well:

Quote:

Why spend SO much money on 23,500 Natives, when the rest of Canadians have to pay? All or nothing...

You're pandering to the racists instead of taking racism out of the issue altogether. There's a damned good reason they get free education, we gave it to them.
Why did we only give it to only the natives?
What kind of penny-pinching short-term vision of ignorance can possibly defend exclusiveness as part of an education policy?

[Brenda]

herbie wrote:

Brenda wrote:

herbie wrote:

How come none of you are arguing for free post secondary education for everyone?
That's "equal".
What's wrong with you?

I thought that is exactly what I am doing?

Not very well:

Quote:

Why spend SO much money on 23,500 Natives, when the rest of Canadians have to pay? All or nothing...

You're pandering to the racists instead of taking racism out of the issue altogether. There's a damned good reason they get free education, we gave it to them.
Why did we only give it to only the natives?
What kind of penny-pinching short-term vision of ignorance can possibly defend exclusiveness as part of an education policy?

I stated in my first post that it should be for all or nobody. I don't care what colour, race, gender or sexual preference someone has.

As far as I am concerned, we all pay for post-secondary education for everybody.

[PJB]

Donny...Nice to see your input into this. In fact, I totally agree with much of what you say. We, as a nation, pride ourselves in taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves. ie Universal healthcare, and a viable, although kinda cheap social network. Native Canadians, I refuse to say First Nations because that implies a certain social status, have seen some incredible hardships and should be taken care of but, and this is a big but, should it be to a higher standard than the rest of Canada.

I have seen so many commercials broadcast by the Treaty Commission or whatever it calls itself stating that natives never ever owned the lands but under the treaties were willing to share it. That is fine but, if as they state, the never owned it, then how can they claim it? Sounds like a nice little contradition.

I feel for the natives of this country but I will not ignore the needs of my own children. They should be allowed the same access without having to pay huge fees to get the same education that my tax dollars are paying for kids that feel that they, by race, are entitled to.

[PJB]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Brenda wrote:

I am willing to pay a few bucks into EVERYBODIES post-secondary education. Not only the natives.

You already do. Education is subsidised for everyone except foreign students. K-12 is "free" for everyone.

Ya got a point there...Too bad it doesn't extend to post secondary...(Universal)

[herbie]

Sorry Brenda I missed a couple of your posts.
People are really onboard with the idea. Surprised the usual troglodytes aren't hijacking the thread with "nanny state" whining.

I do IT servicing on a couple rez's and it's pretty clear these isolated places need way more people in post secondary. The ones that do go on don't come back, there's a need to send so many that some will.
Then I go back to the shop and deal with almost exclusively 'white' people. And by Jesus, they need it too. Four, five times a day I have to say, pull the power off your modem and plug it back in so it reboots. Four, five times I get asked 'which wire is the power'? The one that goes to the wall plug you fucking half-wit

[romanP]

PJB wrote:

lily..I really doubt this change will happen overnight. There will have to be consultations and reviews and about a thousand protests but, hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and perhaps someone will see how much money this free education is costing Canadian taxpayers.

Instead of just looking at the cost, we should also be looking at what we will gain from that cost. A good education is an investment with high economic returns.

[PJB]

romanP wrote:

PJB wrote:

lily..I really doubt this change will happen overnight. There will have to be consultations and reviews and about a thousand protests but, hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and perhaps someone will see how much money this free education is costing Canadian taxpayers.

Instead of just looking at the cost, we should also be looking at what we will gain from that cost. A good education is an investment with high economic returns.

I totally agree but, why just one group of people? Why not all Canadian children? If we can afford it for one then why not for all?

[dino_bobba_renno]

Personally I think when it comes to native issues the last thing anyone needs to pick a part would be the student financing. There are far more important issues to concentrate on than something like this such as land claims and treaty settlements.

To fiddle fart with something that costs 315 million and actually has some positive tangible results as compared to the entire "native" budget is just plain stupid. It's a drop in the bucket compared to all the money being spent and I'll bet a dollar to doughnut there are far more deserving areas where the fat can be trimmed.

[jason700]

Denying this post-secondary education to natives really does nothing good for Canadians except give them some sense of "fairness". The end result will most likely have us paying out more.

If those numbers are indeed correct that the band is given an average of $73K per student, then maybe the program should be reviewed. I liked the suggestion of having the money go directly to the school for tuition and to the student for living costs. But cutting the program altogether would actually set us and natives back.

[Donny_Brasco]

Brenda wrote:

Quote:

The bottom line on aboriginal education
In its 2008-2009 budget, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada invested $1.7 billion in First Nations and Inuit education programs for an estimated 23,500 students.

Supporters of the online petition intend to give it to members of Parliament, who they hope will present it to Parliament in February.

“Why should you pay back a loan for something that is a right? We’ve paid many times over for our... resources.”

— Sagkeeng Chief Donavan Fontaine

The petition can be found online at http://www.cepn-fnec.com/petition/petition_e.aspx.

This is from the first post of this thread, way down to the end.

I agree with you that $72K is WAY overboard...

I see it in the thread but what is the source for that number so it can be explained. Anyone who thinks it costs 72k for a year of university must be going to Princton and Harvard at the same time.

[Brenda]

How is it "denying" post-secondary education? Are you saying the other Canadian kids are being "denied" post-secondary education because it is not paid for?

[jason700]

Brenda wrote:

How is it "denying" post-secondary education? Are you saying the other Canadian kids are being "denied" post-secondary education because it is not paid for?

Sorry... I mean, "Denying natives these post-secondary education funds..."