[Gunnair]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Gunnair wrote:

As I said earlier - your people were conquered. Don't expect fairness. I know mine didn't at the hands of the English, nor did Brenda's at the hands of the French.

The sooner you accept the history and end the constant wallowing in self-pity the better.

Sorry to say it, but the culture of victemhood has done absolutley nothing for the natives. Your poor because you choose to live on the reserves in poverty as opposed to leaving and moving to more prosperous regions.

So if you had any say in it you would go to court and tell the judge that we were conquered, despite all the agreements, legal evidence and case law that states otherwise?

That’s good, because instead of hiring $500/hour lawyers we can save some money and get a first year law student to beat that argument in court.

Thanks for your opinion.

Apparently you did not benefit from some of that free post secondary education becuase your comprehension sucks.

As I said - do not expect fairness from treaties drawn up a century ago by people who had no clue how they would work in the 2st century. The government is not going to go out of its way to find ways to continue to throw tons of money at the native community - especially one that does not like accountability to government oversight.

Again, the cult of victemhood and entitlement has done nothing for you. If it is your desire to maintain status quo, then by all means, live in poverty on useless lands governed by unaccountable leadership with no future save to raise the next generation to live the same way.

I'm not sure what more you want the rest of Canada to do except cede more of what no longer belongs to you.

You may simply think I'm being racist, unsympathetic, a dick, or all of the above, ultimately I don't really care which route you wish to go to stop dialogue - but my own people were in the same situation as yours - worse in some cases because the English found a better way to deal with the highlanders and that was to have their chiefs abandon them in favour of money, power, and land. My people were kicked out of their glens and islands, forced to move south to England or die, and eventually to Canada. That's past. Many of my clan died fighting the English and the other clans in sectarian violance perpetuated by the crown and the chiefs and we lost everything - that's also past. We either moved on, left the old country, got over our loss and stayed on, or we wallowed in the same self-pity at what we were and what we had become - a problem some say is still occuring in Scotland.

I live very close to a reserve - one that I think is better off than many. I see lots of poverty still and lots of kids having kids. I see some of them working off the reserve and they are a friendly bunch - good to talk to, but many of them are miserable creatures that are simply existing. No pride and lots of emulation of the worst in society.

I don't like the reserve system nor the Indian act because I believe it perpetuates everything that is wrong with how we deal with the natives, nor do I wish to see a rewrite of history to give eveything back that was taken - not unless the natives wish to see that happen amongst themselves (since conquest happened amongst the native tribes as well).

I believe it's about time you came to join us.

[BartSimpson]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

BartSimpson wrote:

Donny_Brasco wrote:

We are open to renegotiate if you are willing to pay fair market value. Then we have no claim at all.

If you people got paid everything you asked for today it wouldn't be enough. You'd be back with your hands out and making demands the next day after the check was cashed.

And then you could say "no".

I respect this. I also gave you +1 rep point.

[Donny_Brasco]

Like I said, thanks for your opinion.

I'm actually dealing in facts and points that are the basis for legal actions. The results of which are as legally binding as the Treaties themselves.

We are not surrendering our rights because it suits you and your interpretation of history.

Had we been treated as equal partners since signing the treaties then we would not be in this situation.

Had we not been prevented from farming, starting businesses and hiring lawyers to protect our interests then we would not be in this situation.

Had we been able to vote or leave our reserves to work and live alongside your forefathers then we would not be in this situation.

I think we've had enough advice from your kind as to how we should handle our own affairs.

If you want to come join us and talk about resolving these issues as partners than the door is open. If you wish to continue to unilaterally impose your will on us, we will see you in your courts.

And you better be prepared to lose, and lawyer worth a lick will tell you the same thing. And give you the costs of losing.

Don’t forget our rights to this land are enshrined in the constitution.

[Chumley]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Had we been treated as equal partners since signing the treaties then we would not be in this situation.

Had we not been prevented from farming, starting businesses and hiring lawyers to protect our interests then we would not be in this situation.

Had we been able to vote or leave our reserves to work and live alongside your forefathers then we would not be in this situation.

You have all of those things now.

[Gunnair]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Like I said, thanks for your opinion.

I'm actually dealing in facts and points that are the basis for legal actions. The results of which are as legally binding as the Treaties themselves.

We are not surrendering our rights because it suits you and your interpretation of history.

Had we been treated as equal partners since signing the treaties then we would not be in this situation.

Had we not been prevented from farming, starting businesses and hiring lawyers to protect our interests then we would not be in this situation.

Had we been able to vote or leave our reserves to work and live alongside your forefathers then we would not be in this situation.

I think we've had enough advice from your kind as to how we should handle our own affairs.

If you want to come join us and talk about resolving these issues as partners than the door is open. If you wish to continue to unilaterally impose your will on us, we will see you in your courts.

And you better be prepared to lose, and lawyer worth a lick will tell you the same thing. And give you the costs of losing.

Don’t forget our rights to this land are enshrined in the constitution.

Whatever .

Live in your constitutionally enshrined cult of victemhood and entitlement then. Hire your lawyers, plead your case, and see how far it gets you. The sooner you realize that no amount of money will change you situation because your situation breeds failure, the sooner you'll leave the hell you've had your part in creating and maintaining.

[Donny_Brasco]

Thanks again for your opinion.

Odd that you invite me to join you yet you have no interest in working with me to resolve our problems.

The spirit of the treaties involves sharing. Sharing does not mean we get whatever charity you care to hand out.

If we give up then we are victims to your misguided sense of entitlement. Do you have any facts that back up your entitlement to this land?

I didn't think so.

[Brenda]

Do you?

[Gunnair]

Donny_Brasco wrote:

Quote:

Thanks again for your opinion.

You're welcome.

Quote:

Odd that you invite me to join you yet you have no interest in working with me to resolve our problems.

Probably more accurate to say that neither side is interested in working with the other's exclusive terms to resolve our problems.

Quote:

The spirit of the treaties involves sharing. Sharing does not mean we get whatever charity you care to hand out.

Sharing doesn't mean you get whatever charity you feel you're entitled to.

Quote:

If we give up then we are victims to your misguided sense of entitlement.

Look around you. You are the victims of your own misguided sense of entitlement.

Quote:

Do you have any facts that back up your entitlement to this land?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes. It was called conquest.

[Mustang1]

What treaty guarantees free post-secondary education?

[stratos]

Wondering if any treaty guarantees any type of education to first nation people? My understanding of them is that they basicly say... go to said land and stay there if you dont you get shoot. This is very very simplistic but thats what it boils down to.

[Axeman]

The Constitution says that the Federal government is responsible for Native education.

[Chumley]

Axeman wrote:

The Constitution says that the Federal government is responsible for Native education.

Wouldn't access to the public school system cover that?

[Axeman]

Chumley wrote:

Axeman wrote:

The Constitution says that the Federal government is responsible for Native education.

Wouldn't access to the public school system cover that?

It would if the Constitution wasn't the highest legal authority in the land. The Constitution specifically spells out that Education is a Provincial matter, while Native education is a Federal matter.

[Donny_Brasco]

Gunnair wrote:

Quote:

Do you have any facts that back up your entitlement to this land?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes. It was called conquest.

Come again?

I would say that would mean we lost some sort of conflict and that our Status is not recognized in the Canadian constitution.

I would also say that would mean that we would not have claim to vast areas of Canada which the SCC agrees with.

Those are FACTS.

Your opinion is not a fact. It actually shows how extremely ignorant you are.

Bring some facts about your so called conquest - oh right, you have none.

How about giving us a few more of your ignorant opinions then.

[Brenda]

So because you think you are entitled to a hand out, and so will your kids kids kids be, others who don't agree (and pay that hand out) have ignorant opinions?

I think this is the end of that discussion...


I absolutely do not agree with a $72,500/Native student hand out a year. I think that $1.7 billion can be spent better than is said in that story on page 1.
I also think EVERY Canadian should be able to get a post-secondary education. Affordable post-secondary education. It's one of the most important things we can give to the future of our country.