Like it or not in a capitalist system, companies fail and their assets and employed are relocated to other companies. I was in favour of the first round of bail-outs, but now that I've seen what GM did with their loan (piss it away), I'm all out of charity, especially with the CAW refusing to change.
I would agree 100% IF all of the automotive companies were North American. However you can not compare today's economy when Studebaker, Hudson, Nash, Willys, Crosley and others fought with GM, Chrysler, Ford.
Today's economy does not have a level playing field. What "free enterprise" North American company can compete on the global market with Chinese corporatism or EU protectiomism or the low wages of India or Brazil?
I do agree with your CAW stance. But why punish the employer when the employee is at fault?
bootlegga
CKA Uber
Posts: 13354
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:34 pm
stemmer wrote:
bootlegga wrote:
What money did the Canadian government give to Toyota? As far as I can tell, they've done nothing other than what they did for the Big 3, offer a few tax breaks to set up shop here.
Another cherry picker eh? Only believes what the liberal media tells ya' and nothing else... Did you go to school with Maurice Strong? Then read and weep...
Quote:
WOODSTOCK, Ontario — The Ontario Government is investing $8.7 million in new jobs and leading-edge ideas at Toyota Boshoku Canada’s auto parts plant, announced Minister of Economic Development and Trade Sandra Pupatello.
Take a look at the bolded sections...ya still got nothing!
Better luck next time...even if you do find a news article that shows that the FEDERAL government gave something to Toyota or another foreign car manufacturer, there are tons of others on tax breaks given to the Big 3.
stemmer
CKA Elite
Posts: 3805
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:37 pm
I never said everything on the internet is false... Just those punk arse sites like WIKI or those pages that are hosted on warez ftp servers in some college dorm... A link to AP, CBC, CTV, Fox, NBC, PBS, Debka, BBC, National Post, Globe & Mail, NY Times or any other legitimate site....
I've mentioned this to you a few times, now do you comprehend? Are you & Hurley_108 the same person as I can not believe there could be two posters that dumb...
mtbr
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:47 pm
here's another one of those handouts Toyota received.
Government of Canada Announces Support for New Toyota Plant
OTTAWA, June 30, 2005 — The Government of Canada today announced it will provide $55 million in support for a new Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada Inc. automotive assembly plant to be built in Woodstock, Ontario. This will be the first auto assembly plant built on a greenfield site in Canada since 1986, and it will create 1,300 direct new jobs.
"This announcement reinforces the Government of Canada's commitment to attracting new investment to Canada," said Prime Minister Paul Martin. "A new auto assembly plant will bring tremendous economic benefits to this country, and will help maintain Canada's global position in the auto sector."
The Government of Canada and the Province of Ontario have come together to support the new Toyota plant. The repayable federal support is part of an $800-million project to construct a state-of-the-art, flexible assembly plant that will use the latest Toyota manufacturing system. The federal funds will be used to support pre-production and environmental technologies in the plant and paint shop.
"Greenfield investments are rare and new auto assembly investments are coveted worldwide for the significant economic and technological benefits they generate," said the Honourable David L. Emerson, Minister of Industry. "This new Toyota plant will bring employment and training opportunities, new infrastructure, advances in environmental technology research and development, and spin-off benefits to related industries."
Today's announcement follows a meeting the Prime Minister and Industry Minister had with Fujio Cho, President of Toyota Motor Corporation, in Tokyo, Japan, on January 19, 2005. Following this meeting, the company approached the provincial and federal governments to help support the project.
Toyota is a recognized global industry leader in terms of manufacturing excellence, innovation and environmental management, and is at the forefront of hybrid and fuel cell vehicle technology. The new plant will employ the latest innovations in flexible manufacturing technologies and processes, which will maximize efficiency and quality while reducing costs. Substantial environmental management initiatives are planned for the new plant and its suppliers.
In addition to the new assembly plant, Toyota has announced that it will invest another $39 million to expand capacity by 17 percent at Canadian Autoparts Toyota Inc. (CAPTIN), its aluminum wheel plant in Delta, British Columbia. This is the second expansion at CAPTIN in the last two years, and the sixth since production began in 1985.
This Government of Canada support is part of a larger commitment to the entire automotive sector — Canada's largest industrial sector. Helping attract new vehicle assembly investments has been identified as a key priority and is supported by the Canadian Automotive Partnership Council, a private sector-led group composed of senior executives from industry (assembly, parts manufacturers and distributors and dealers), labour and academia, as well as the industry and economic development ministers from the governments of Canada, Ontario and Quebec.
Proculation
CKA Super Elite
Posts: 6452
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:52 pm
stemmer wrote:
I never said everything on the internet is false... Just those punk arse sites like WIKI or those pages that are hosted on warez ftp servers in some college dorm... A link to AP, CBC, CTV, Fox, NBC, PBS, Debka, BBC, National Post, Globe & Mail, NY Times or any other legitimate site....
I've mentioned this to you a few times, now do you comprehend? Are you & Hurley_108 the same person as I can not believe there could be two posters that dumb...
(please don't start with the wiki thing again) But, most facts cited in wikipedia are referred to bottom notes with links to legitimate sources. It's just easier to search on wikipedia on a particular subject because everything is together.
stemmer
CKA Elite
Posts: 3805
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:57 pm
A WIKI link is so unreliable it would be tossed out of court before a trial even began? Why? Because who is accountable for the WIKI info? Who would be liable?
WIKI is wide upon. Anyone can edit anything... Shall I prove my point again?
mtbr
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:04 pm
at the bottom of every page there's a bunch of little numbers called references
One reason for the casual support for letting GM fail is the assumption that bankruptcy would be no big deal: As USA Today editorialized recently, "Bankruptcy need not mean that the company disappears." But, while it's worked out that way for the airlines, among others, it's unlikely a GM business failure would play out in the same fashion. In order to seek so-called Chapter 11 status, a distressed company must find some way to operate while the bankruptcy court keeps creditors at bay. But GM can't build cars without parts, and it can't get parts without credit. Chapter 11 companies typically get that sort of credit from something called Debtor-in-Possession (DIP) loans. But the same Wall Street meltdown that has dragged down the economy and GM sales has also dried up the DIP money GM would need to operate.
That's why many analysts and scholars believe GM would likely end up in Chapter 7 bankruptcy, which would entail total liquidation. The company would close its doors, immediately throwing more than 100,000 people out of work. And, according to experts, the damage would spread quickly. Automobile parts suppliers in the United States rely disproportionately on GM's business to stay afloat. If GM shut down, many if not all of the suppliers would soon follow. Without parts, Chrysler, Ford, and eventually foreign-owned factories in the United States would have to cease operations. From Toledo to Tuscaloosa, the nation's?assembly lines could go silent, sending a chill through their local economies as the idled workers stopped spending money.
Restaurants, gas stations, hospitals, and then cities, counties, and states--all of them would feel pressure on their bottom lines. A study just published by the Michigan-based Center for Automotive Research (CAR) predicted that three million people would lose their jobs in the first year after such a Big Three meltdown, swelling the ranks of the unemployed by nearly one-third nationally and leading to hundreds of billions of dollars in lost income. The Midwest would feel the effects disproportionately, but the effect would reach into every community with a parts supplier or factory--and, to a lesser extent, into every town and city with a dealership. In short, virtually every community in the country would be touched.
You're living proof why cousins shouldn't marry.... Now go turn on the tv like a good bloke, I think your beloved comedy team, the Toronto Make Me Laughs maybe on TSN....
stemmer
CKA Elite
Posts: 3805
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:33 pm
Ripcat... an excellent article and certainly tells it as it is... AND finally someone who knows how to use the internet as a proper research and post a link to a legitimate source & not some silly WIKI document or a webpage hosted in a college frat house....
mtbr
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:36 pm
stemmer wrote:
Replying to mtbr...
You're living proof why cousins shouldn't marry.... Now go turn on the tv like a good bloke, I think your beloved comedy team, the Toronto Make Me Laughs maybe on TSN....
mtbr
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:37 pm
stemmer wrote:
Ripcat... an excellent article and certainly tells it as it is... AND finally someone who knows how to use the internet as a proper research and post a link to a legitimate source & not some silly WIKI document or a webpage hosted in a college frat house....
an article from November...things have gotten a lot worse for GM since then.
stemmer
CKA Elite
Posts: 3805
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:57 pm
So...they should file for bankruptcy? What's your point man or is it merely to waste bandwidth with nonsense?
Hurley must be impressed with your new posting style...
poquas
Forum Super Elite
Posts: 2334
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:59 pm
Stemmer. Take this from a professional. If you're on medication now, you're taking too much. If you're not on medication, you should be.
stemmer
CKA Elite
Posts: 3805
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:56 am
The problem is - NA is becoming the dumping ground for every other nations products... We must give favorable considerations to our own NA corporations...
The living standards of the working middle class in NA was much higher prior to all of this globalization... Now Maurice Strong and the Desmarais Power Corp lackies are signing our NA sovereignty over to Asia...
We need GM, Ford & Chrysler... We don't need more Power Corp led trade missions to Asia...
CKA Elite 
![[stupid]](./images/smilies/stupid.gif "With stupid")
