[N_Fiddledog]

Weaver's only real claim to fame is as an IPCC computer modeler. I'm going to start to call him GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

OK, so he's realized oil-fueled CAGW is starting to fall apart, and he's retreating to the Hansen-endorsed, "it's all about the coal now", defense. Still not impressed.

Gore is starting to retreat from talking about global warming too. He's going for the UN authorized, "sustainability" angle now.

They're all just rats deserting the sinking ship, and looking for a new one, is what's really happening.

[N_Fiddledog]

See these guys realize what their silly camp-followers don't. Two or three solid years of cooling right now, and you're going to start to see graphs of a 15 year falling temperature trend. We had one cooling year, and it's starting to look like an even cooler one is coming. If the arctic ice refuses to melt below the 2007 peak, their whole "the end is coming by heat this time", argument is toast, and they're going to look like idiots...unless they can say, "Oh, I never meant that. I meant this - what I've been saying the last couple of years."

If the followers were smart they'd jump on the rats backs, and start getting ready to paddle.

[andyt]

It would be so nice to have your certainty. Life would be so much simpler.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt wrote:

It would be so nice to have your certainty. Life would be so much simpler.

There ya go...now you're starting to get it. Try that one. "Oh, I never actually thought the apocalypse was coming from global warming. I just wasn't sure is all."

Way to paddle Andy. Why go down with those other idiots. GIGO Weaver won't.

[andyt]

I don't have either your nor Eureka's certainty. I'm certain atmospheric CO2 has increased dramatically over the last couple of hundred years. I'm certain this should have some warming effect, but don't have a clue how much and what countervailing factors are in play. I'm certain that crowing about one cold year is pretty silly, can't establish much of a trend from that. I know that La Nina was pretty strong last year and is still playing out - that certainly cools part of the planet - don't know it's overall global effects.

I'm reasonably certain that when some people call me a AGW religionist, and others a denier I'm probably on the right track.

[fifeboy]

andyt wrote:

I don't have either your nor Eureka's certainty. I'm certain atmospheric CO2 has increased dramatically over the last couple of hundred years. I'm certain this should have some warming effect, but don't have a clue how much and what countervailing factors are in play. I'm certain that crowing about one cold year is pretty silly, can't establish much of a trend from that. I know that La Nina was pretty strong last year and is still playing out - that certainly cools part of the planet - don't know it's overall global effects.

I'm reasonably certain that when some people call me a AGW religionist, and others a denier I'm probably on the right track.

Well said. More study is what is needed.

[andyt]

I think there's things we can do. Our reliance on oil has already bitten us in the ass many times (7 out of 8 recessions are deemed due to it) and makes us suck up to scumbags. We're moving into fracking for oil and natural gas, but that has it's own problems. Coal we already know about, from particulate pollution to acid rain. We should be cutting back our carbon energy usage anyway. We made great strides in improving engine efficiency, but put to towards more and more power - way more than people need, for example. We waste energy like crazy. So I think we should reduce our carbon use, just not light our hair on fire about it, do it in an orderly way. Unfortunately that's not the way humans work - we won't do anything until it's an emergency, and by then it may be too late.

[Gunnair]

andyt wrote:

I don't have either your nor Eureka's certainty. I'm certain atmospheric CO2 has increased dramatically over the last couple of hundred years. I'm certain this should have some warming effect, but don't have a clue how much and what countervailing factors are in play. I'm certain that crowing about one cold year is pretty silly, can't establish much of a trend from that. I know that La Nina was pretty strong last year and is still playing out - that certainly cools part of the planet - don't know it's overall global effects.

I'm reasonably certain that when some people call me a AGW religionist, and others a denier I'm probably on the right track.

Agreed. I take more centrist approach because I don't buy into the extremes purported by the extremists of either side. I'm not sure why I have to buy into either religion to not be considered a denier with my head up my ass or a whacked out tree hugger making money off of fear.

I turn my heat down, shut off my lights, ride my bike to work, and generally try to curb my carbon footprint.

Somehow, that's not good enough for some.

Like a bunch of crazy assed Baptists that tell me I'm going to hell if I don't follow their way even when I go to church on Sundays and am generally a good person. The message becomes one of control.

You can see it every time Eureka posts. He must control your opinion, 100% of it, and you must be in full agreement or you are a denier and an object of disgust.