[Newsbot]

Title: 'Honour killing' cited in death
Category: Law & Order
Posted By: Hyack
Date: 2009-01-07 10:30:39
Canadian

[ridenrain]

This sort of crap should be escalated to a hate crime. It needs to be stamped out by education and harsh penalties.

[BartSimpson]

ridenrain wrote:

This sort of crap should be escalated to a hate crime. It needs to be stamped out by education and harsh penalties.

It needs to be stamped out by education and evangelism. Disabusing people of the beliefs that contribute to honor killings cannot be separated from disabusing them from committing honor killings.

[DerbyX]

How is this different then if she had been killed for any number of reasons? Stabbed by a robber or by a jealous husband killing his wife to avoid losing a costly divorce settlement its still the same thing.

[ridenrain]

It's worst because it places woman as belongings of the father/husband/family, not as equals.

[ridenrain]

We brand murders of gays as a hate crime because the act objectifies the victim.
Here was a woman who was treated like a malfunctioning radio and discarded and because she wouldn't behave to religious or family standards, she ws killed.

We had a whole history of "education" reguarding the rights of woman. Numerous sit-coms had the "square" father getting upset and forbidding his daughter from going out "dressed like that". That example hammered the idea that woman have rights and their opinions must be respected.
The Sihk community needs to learn that lesson.

[Freakinoldguy]

This isn't suprising given that a majority of this culture in over 100 years, has in no way shape or form attempted to assimilate in any meaningful way to Canadian values, morals or ethics.

Until these people come out of their self imposed ghetto's and become full members of Canadian society, you're going to see these Barbaric practices continue, unabated, since the perpatrators have absolutely no regard nor respect for the Canadian judicial system.

[Bacardi4206]

I am almost ready to throw all these people out myself, except my neighbours. They are cool and caring people. Maybe we should stop looking at immigration in muslim countries, and look more into immigration from countries without pure stupidity.

I'd be more interested in Asian Immigration, they always behave themselves and don't constantly 'honor kill' because they don't come from a country with that bullshit allowances and they bring great food .

[martin14]

umm Bacardi, these are Sikhs, not muslims.

I would like to move this beyond a hate crime,
and make it an offense whereby upon conviction,

the entire family is automatically stripped of anything
including citizenship and deported.

I dont beleive these things happen without some knowledge in the family,
and tacitly condoning it.

[Terence]

martin14 wrote:

the entire family is automatically stripped of anything
including citizenship and deported.

I dont beleive these things happen without some knowledge in the family,
and tacitly condoning it.

You sir, are a caveman, with no knowledge of the history of Western civilization, legal tradition, and you talk about concepts that if enacted would strip us all of hard fought for civil rights.

In condemning a family for the actions of one or several members, you are exhibiting exactly the same uncivilized behavior the antiquated Indian Hindu Caste system, and fundamentalist Islamic and radical Sikh yahoos engage in. The difference between them and you? You grew up in a system and civilization that should have taught you better.

How sore would your Mom be if Canadaka collectively bitch slapped parents of posters for dumb posts their kids make?

"He who would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will lose both and deserve neither."

[Bibbi]

Martin does however make a good point that an "honour killing" is often a "family affair" rather than an isolated act by one male. Perhaps more than one person should be charged with murder or conspiracy etc.

[DerbyX]

Bibbi wrote:

Martin does however make a good point that an "honour killing" is often a "family affair" rather than an isolated act by one male. Perhaps more than one person should be charged with murder or conspiracy etc.

They can be charged. s 465 deals with conspiracy to commit murder and solicitation to commit murder. Any family member (or anyone else for that matter) engaging in the act of planning to kill another person can be charged. In addition there are charges for those who knew but did nothing and those that aided in any way.

Its no different then any of the cases in our society where family members have killed other family members for money or because of cheating or to prevent losing the kids in a divorce.

The only difference is that its another culture doing the killing for their reasons (and often honour killings are about money in the form of another dowry) so people think its especially heinous that these people are killing for anything but good old fashioned Canadian reasons.

If they had any honour they'd assimiliate to our culture and kill for drug money, become serial killers, or just get drunk and kill people from the comfort of their cutlass sierra.

Whether its campaigns to target "violence against women" or "violence against gays" it just detracts from the real argument of just camopaigning to stop violence.

[ridenrain]

It's the "honor" of the family so there's definitely other members involved, and it's often done back home too.
New married couple go back to the old country and one of them falls off the balcony or spontaneously catches fire.. happens all the time.

While I can see that this might not fit into the hate crime class, it's evil beyond the average murder. The problem is the Sikh community is very closed to the police.
What would be most effective is a full push media campaign in BC schools, and damned the bleating of racism and racial profiling.

[Brenda]

InternetChatter wrote:

martin14 wrote:

the entire family is automatically stripped of anything
including citizenship and deported.

I dont beleive these things happen without some knowledge in the family,
and tacitly condoning it.

You sir, are a caveman, with no knowledge of the history of Western civilization, legal tradition, and you talk about concepts that if enacted would strip us all of hard fought for civil rights.

In condemning a family for the actions of one or several members, you are exhibiting exactly the same uncivilized behavior the antiquated Indian Hindu Caste system, and fundamentalist Islamic and radical Sikh yahoos engage in. The difference between them and you? You grew up in a system and civilization that should have taught you better.

How sore would your Mom be if Canadaka collectively bitch slapped parents of posters for dumb posts their kids make?

"He who would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will lose both and deserve neither."

You, sir, are a caveman. They immigrated to this country too, on one man's skills.
The moment you talk about honour killings, is the moment you talk about a family affair. Otherwise it would just be plain murder.

[Terence]

Charge the idiots involved, but stop this nonsense about deporting people here legally for the acts of CRIMINAL relatives.

That is not acceptable in any Western system of law. It is right out of the star trek's Klingon law maybe, and the law of savage cultures in non Democracies.

The difference between freedom and a dictatorship is liberty, attack it like this and you are no longer a country with the right to feign cultural or moral superiority.

Go read the history of Orange Order sectarian killings in Ontario at the end of the 19th Century. Or the Nazi sympathizers in Toronto in the 1940s. All of which were committed by Canadian culture. Where should we send the Canadian born families of Reena Virk's murders which had racially based overtones?