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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:28 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Freakinoldguy wrote:
These two countries did all the things that the rest of the world didn't do till it was to late and now they're reaping the rewards of their foresight and willingness to adapt while we suffer.


And how much did it cost, in those two small, densely populated and very rich countries? And how many people would bitch that Trudeau was spending our grandchildrens' future to build it?

Just like Y2k and MERS were the calamities that never happened, because of good planning, that system would have been another billion dollar boondoggle if Covid-19 never came along.


Both Singapore and Taiwan were hit with a severe SARS outbreaks and Y2K just like alot of the rest of the world and for some strange reason they understood what's required to mitigate a pandemic and showed that it didn't have to be a billion dollar boondoggle. As the matter of fact since they prepared for this after SARS they've had between 16 and 18 years to put the money away and get ready for this pandemic without hurting their economy.

So, to say that we couldn't afford to prepare for a pandemic that's been predicted for a hundred years isn't exactly true, is it?


And to say we did nothing when we too were hard hit with SARS is not exactly true either.

Quote:
Canada has taken major steps to prevent the kind of shock that befell Ontario during the outbreak of the coronavirus known as SARS in 2003 that led to 44 deaths. Creating the Public Health Agency of Canada, which Tam heads, is one of them.

The country is now better co-ordinated, has increased its lab-testing capabilities and is prepared to trace people’s contacts to find people who might have caught a contagious illness without knowing it.

But once the number of incoming cases reaches a critical mass, the approach must change, according to infectious-diseases physician Dr. Isaac Bogoch of Toronto’s University Health Network.

He likens the response to trying to catch fly balls in the outfield: as the number of balls in the air increases, they become harder and harder to snag.

“Every health care system has limits,” Bogoch says. “The question is, if we start getting inundated with cases, how stretched can we get?”

Many emergency-room doctors argue Canada’s ERs are already as stretched as they can get and are worried about what would happen if they suddenly had to start treating COVID-19 cases en masse.

From the public-health perspective, the greatest challenge may be as simple communicating across all parts of the health system across the country, said Dr. Jasmine Pawa, president of the Public Health Physicians of Canada.

“We cover a very wide geographic area,” she said, though she added that Canada has made great strides over the course of the SARS experience and the H1N1 flu outbreak in 2009.


https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/c ... s-outbreak

Freakinoldguy wrote:
It doesn't cost much to close your borders, to quarantine your population and to prevent non essential movement within your country. It also doesn't cost much to enforce your quarantine laws. But hey it's alot easier to do nothing and wait for a bunch of twits at the Word Health Organization tell you what to do, despite the fact that even a blind man could see how this whole thing was playing out, which by the way was November not December.

https://www.livescience.com/first-case- ... found.html


Closing borders can delay, but can’t stop the spread of COVID-19, new report says

And I refer you back to the John's Hopkins pandemic excercise "Event 201" that showed closing borders in this interconnected world does little to stop the spread of any virus, because by the time people become symptomatic they have already spread the disease to dozens of others.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
I think the biggest issue here isn't the amount of money that now has to be thrown at the pandemic or the damage it's doing to the world economy, it's that the countries who waited for the WHO to tell them what to do and are now in far more trouble than the countries who had pandemic mitigation plans in place and actually enforced those plans at the beginning of the event.


So all of a sudden you are embracing the UN?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:37 am
 


Public_Domain wrote:
i see dipshit people of all ages every day out buying bullshit and openly commentating that they think this whole thing is bullshit

what the fuck are you even ranting on about you bitter fucking footnote?

you're literally seething in hysterics with your conspiracy theory that bernie supporters are spreading the virus

again i dunno why you're ranting at me like the "kids" fucking listen to me, as if the old people not taking this seriously would listen to you?

you asinine old fart, you're absolutely out of your mind. just rattling off random conservative brainworm tirades, mashing it all up into one and getting yourself into a right rage over your own mental demons

what does nurses being mentally taxed to hell in this crisis have to do with minimum wage service workers being also forced to work through the crisis? what sort of logic is that? "ah, a virus is infecting thousands and is highly contagious. the hospitals are overwhelmed and the nurses are overworked. which reminds me, kids have it too easy!"

are you working? outside your house? if not, shut the FUCK UP


:lol:
Reaction from some... nothing...

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:54 am
 


Public_Domain wrote:
i see dipshit people of all ages every day out buying bullshit and openly commentating that they think this whole thing is bullshit

what the fuck are you even ranting on about you bitter fucking footnote?

you're literally seething in hysterics with your conspiracy theory that bernie supporters are spreading the virus

again i dunno why you're ranting at me like the "kids" fucking listen to me, as if the old people not taking this seriously would listen to you?

you asinine old fart, you're absolutely out of your mind. just rattling off random conservative brainworm tirades, mashing it all up into one and getting yourself into a right rage over your own mental demons

what does nurses being mentally taxed to hell in this crisis have to do with minimum wage service workers being also forced to work through the crisis? what sort of logic is that? "ah, a virus is infecting thousands and is highly contagious. the hospitals are overwhelmed and the nurses are overworked. which reminds me, kids have it too easy!"

are you working? outside your house? if not, shut the FUCK UP


How about this. I'll "shut the fuck up" when you do something for yourself and others instead of whining like a 12 year old private school girl about how bad your lot in life is because, "Old white men"

Till then, i'm going to keep calling you out for your continual bitching about how it's always "someone else's fault" and never yours. But I have a question. Did the old white guy (if there is one) who's FORCING you to work in supposedly unhealthy unsanitary unsafe conditions contact the Chinese Communist gov't and tell them to unleash hell upon the world just so he could kill you off? ROTFL


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:13 am
 


i pray to comrade xi to send the missiles every fucking day

to your tirade: where in this thread did i bring up "white"? i brought up old people, the old people who run the governments and corporations, the fuddy-duddies who do nothing to safeguard their workers (and thus communities), and you get yourself in a total panty-twist about your crippling whiteness for some reason

you blame young people for existing. i blame old people for being the ones that decide all this shit.


Last edited by Public_Domain on Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:14 am
 


Us old white men made this law in Canada where you can refuse to work if you believe it endangers your health.
It apples to every age group, every job, but from what I've seen most of the younger workers don't have the fucking balls to stand up to a "boss". Even though they know in their head they'll get nowhere as individuals, they definitely won't act as a group either.
Now I'd just love to go out and do my part at my age, and if I'm symptom free for 5 more days I will. In the meantime the 95 yr old who can't find the INPUT button on his monitor after 5 days trying and the people in the seniors home are gonna have to go without their computers.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:21 am
 


alright, many people have said this to me now. if i can call a store with 1300 locations "unsafe" and get away with it, happily. but something tells me no one in power is sympathetic to that idea, especially as grocery work is now considered "essential", i get the notion that folks like FOG would be making that call, expecting me to suck it up and get back in there.

i've stood up to most of the bosses i've had in life, and what i've learned is that it's an easy way to lose my fucking job.

dollarama is hiring "thousands" of new employees for this. if head office gives me a tiny bottle of hand sanitizer, at what point will government bureaucrats roll their eyes at my complaints about my family's safety?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:31 am
 


i'd be told to get back to work:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5500917

Quote:
Murphy pointed to a case where train employees refused to work because passengers had been infected by the Norwalk virus.

"It wasn't held to be reasonable because the employer had done what was necessary to disinfect and make the workplace safe," Murphy said.


people have such illusions about workers rights in this country. maybe when you work some 6 figure job you can say no, but everyone else just has to get back into the shit


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:31 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:

And how much did it cost, in those two small, densely populated and very rich countries? And how many people would bitch that Trudeau was spending our grandchildrens' future to build it?

Just like Y2k and MERS were the calamities that never happened, because of good planning, that system would have been another billion dollar boondoggle if Covid-19 never came along.
And to say we did nothing when we too were hard hit with SARS is not exactly true either.

Quote:
Canada has taken major steps to prevent the kind of shock that befell Ontario during the outbreak of the coronavirus known as SARS in 2003 that led to 44 deaths. Creating the Public Health Agency of Canada, which Tam heads, is one of them.

The country is now better co-ordinated, has increased its lab-testing capabilities and is prepared to trace people’s contacts to find people who might have caught a contagious illness without knowing it.

But once the number of incoming cases reaches a critical mass, the approach must change, according to infectious-diseases physician Dr. Isaac Bogoch of Toronto’s University Health Network.

He likens the response to trying to catch fly balls in the outfield: as the number of balls in the air increases, they become harder and harder to snag.

“Every health care system has limits,” Bogoch says. “The question is, if we start getting inundated with cases, how stretched can we get?”

Many emergency-room doctors argue Canada’s ERs are already as stretched as they can get and are worried about what would happen if they suddenly had to start treating COVID-19 cases en masse.

From the public-health perspective, the greatest challenge may be as simple communicating across all parts of the health system across the country, said Dr. Jasmine Pawa, president of the Public Health Physicians of Canada.

“We cover a very wide geographic area,” she said, though she added that Canada has made great strides over the course of the SARS experience and the H1N1 flu outbreak in 2009.


https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/c ... s-outbreak

Freakinoldguy wrote:
It doesn't cost much to close your borders, to quarantine your population and to prevent non essential movement within your country. It also doesn't cost much to enforce your quarantine laws. But hey it's alot easier to do nothing and wait for a bunch of twits at the Word Health Organization tell you what to do, despite the fact that even a blind man could see how this whole thing was playing out, which by the way was November not December.

https://www.livescience.com/first-case- ... found.html


Closing borders can delay, but can’t stop the spread of COVID-19, new report says

And I refer you back to the John's Hopkins pandemic excercise "Event 201" that showed closing borders in this interconnected world does little to stop the spread of any virus, because by the time people become symptomatic they have already spread the disease to dozens of others.

Freakinoldguy wrote:
I think the biggest issue here isn't the amount of money that now has to be thrown at the pandemic or the damage it's doing to the world economy, it's that the countries who waited for the WHO to tell them what to do and are now in far more trouble than the countries who had pandemic mitigation plans in place and actually enforced those plans at the beginning of the event.


So all of a sudden you are embracing the UN?



So, our health care system did prepare to some degree. But, for some odd reason everyone else in the federal and provincial gov'ts ignored the reality that we'd get hit again from this family of virus's especially since the Chinese still had, wet markets, lived in the same rooms as their farm animals, ate more roadkill than a redneck truck driver and continue to suppress the truth about outbreaks in their country so as not to lose face.

As it turns out even after the writing was on the wall our and other gov'ts didn't have the stomach to make the hard decisions on their own but waited for the WHO to make the decisions for them.

And for the record I wasn't embracing that cesspool of corruption called the UN. I was vilifying the worlds leadership for waiting for the WHO's orders even when the evidence suggested immediate action like Taiwan and Singapore took was needed to prevent the spread.

Especially, since the multilateral approach the IHR's adopted in 2005 was headed by the WHO failed because neither prevented the Chinese Gov't from doing exactly what they did during the 2003 SARS outbreak. Actively suppressing information that may have played a big part in preventing this virus from turning into a pandemic.

As for spending our grandchildren's future allow me to point out that our current PM and his predecessors spent most of it long before this pandemic even became news. So using that as an excuse for not preparing for the inevitable is ridiculous. How much cheaper would it have been for the Gov't and not just the healthcare system to properly prepare like Taiwan and Singapore did? Or is it better to sit back and watch economy be destroyed and having to run up massive Federal debts inorder to keep your country somewhat solvent?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:25 pm
 


Ok guys...

I know everyone is really stressed out right now. We are all dealing with uncertainty and anxiety. Nobody is untouched by what is going on in our world.

Please try to be civil though in your posts. Take a deep breath before hitting the submit button and try really hard not to take our your frustrations on each other.

Mmmmmm... kay?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:27 pm
 


I'm am not stressed out!!! :evil:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:07 pm
 


Sunnyways wrote:
Singapore and Taiwan certainly have many useful lessons to teach the world on fighting this pandemic. However, Singapore is a single city with an area of 720 square km and a tradition of cultural conformity. Implementing case contact searches there and integrating all sorts of data on individuals is inherently much easier than it is in a subcontinent like Canada with a history of liberal democracy, personal freedom and health care largely controlled at the provincial level. Nearly all Western countries have struggled to emulate the good example set by them.

In a national health crisis like this, I would like to see all provincial authority on health care temporarily assumed by the federal government. It’s also a time when the surveillance capabilities of the internet could really help us in tracing potential cases. We need to think of the common good more than we usually do.


Thanks but no thanks to Federal Government being in charge. AT least not this Federal Government. I'll take my chances with Scott Moe and the Saskatchewan Government. Moe has done everything right IMO except perhaps close our borders to the rest of Canada. Maybe he should do that too.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:39 am
 


Freakinoldguy wrote:
So, our health care system did prepare to some degree. But, for some odd reason everyone else in the federal and provincial gov'ts ignored the reality that we'd get hit again from this family of virus's especially since the Chinese still had, wet markets, lived in the same rooms as their farm animals, ate more roadkill than a redneck truck driver and continue to suppress the truth about outbreaks in their country so as not to lose face.


The reality is that we are the second largest land mass on Earth, not two tiny little islands with a few single points of entry.

And China has long been vilified for its wet markets. It chose to do nothing about them, even after SARS was assumed to evolve there.


Freakinoldguy wrote:
As for spending our grandchildren's future allow me to point out that our current PM and his predecessors spent most of it long before this pandemic even became news. So using that as an excuse for not preparing for the inevitable is ridiculous. How much cheaper would it have been for the Gov't and not just the healthcare system to properly prepare like Taiwan and Singapore did? Or is it better to sit back and watch economy be destroyed and having to run up massive Federal debts inorder to keep your country somewhat solvent?


Quote:
Taiwan actually combined its national health care and immigration databases to generate automated alerts based on travelers’ potential for being infected.


Quote:
People in Singapore, for now, get information from multiple government websites, frequently updated, as well as from a government WhatsApp account. People get their temperatures taken before they can enter most buildings, including businesses, schools, gyms, and government agencies, because fever is one of the main symptoms of COVID-19.


Quote:
These countries all have social structures and traditions that might make this kind of surveillance and control a little easier than in the don’t-tread-on-me United States. But then, none of those countries are China, either, with its full-on surveillance state. “Copying China would have a big impact on the economy,” Hibberd says of Singapore. “But everybody getting the disease quickly and the country panicking would also have a big impact on the economy.”


https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03 ... take-note/

Regardless of costs, there is no way Canadians would put up with the massive surveillance state required for these measures. Plus, with the way Trudeau's spending has been criticized already, there is no way the right wing would have gone along with the costs of such a state. Nor would the voters last election.

And Singapore and Taiwan have only delayed the onset of the pandemic, hopefully until a vaccine is produced. Everyone will still get this virus, it's just a matter of time.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:27 am
 


Well I guess that means I can talk. You see I work and will have to come in if there is any type of emergency or need for me to be here. So, according to PD, I don't have to "shut the fuck up"

I have 2 relatives who are nurses. They are working their butts off. My worries/thoughts are for someone in the hospital for some other reason and getting the Virus. This is no time to need to go to the hospital just so you get some other crappy thing.

The kids in the video went AFTER the corona virus had hit the US. Many states were all ready calling for people to stay home if the could. The kids still went. While there many states imposed 50 or less gatherings then 5-10 later reduced it to no more than 10 people.

Miami found themselves in a hard position. Close the beaches and the kids would just party in houses or hotels. More cramped environment with tons of people jammed in. They did close bars and restaurants but that did not seem to deter them. Even hearing that classes would not resume generated a Heck Yeah let's continue to party type mentality.

As the cases of the Virus climbs I will wonder how many have become infected because of the kids in Miami and other such places they went to.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:37 am
 


raydan wrote:
I'm am not stressed out!!! :evil:



I'm not stressed by the Virus one bit. I am doing extra things to stay as safe as I can. To me it is an attitude of I will do my best and pray I do not get it. If I do get it I will recover or die. I don't fear dieing, I do fear the pain involved. I have trust in the God of my faith.

It seems that there is one person really freaked out on this thread about the Coronavirus. He seems to be looking to blame anyone and everyone he can for it. I can't help but think of the mindset of "Why didn't you MAKE me follow your advice"


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