[ridenrain]

Harper was elected.
Dion was elected.
Even Jack was elected, wasn't he?

You wouldn't tolerate that in the NDP just as I wouldn't in my party. Why do you belittle the fact that Count Chocula wasn't elected by members or even representitives of his party?

[uwish]

Well I for one do admit he is at least attempting to fix the problem. I don't agree with any public money for parties so I still agree with the CPC trying to kill it.

YES it was BAD timing and not the brightest political move. Harper is famous to shooting himself in the foot.

Change another 25 things in the Liberals platform and I would consider to vote for them. Still I only need two or three things changed in the CPC book.

The premise of funding still stands, if you can't get support from the 'people' directly then tough shit. I don't think the public purse supporting east coast, left handed bagpipers party because they got 10 K votes, is any representation of democracy.

[hurley_108]

ridenrain wrote:

Harper was elected.
Dion was elected.
Even Jack was elected, wasn't he?

You wouldn't tolerate that in the NDP just as I wouldn't in my party. Why do you belittle the fact that Count Chocula wasn't elected by members or even representitives of his party?

And now we're back to how he was selected as leader.

[ridenrain]

After ADSCAM, I was actually hoping they would back away (for a long time .. ) and clean out the rot and come back as a legitimate party that folks could trust again. Instead they slapped a new sandwitch board sign on Joe Volpe and sent him out on the campaign trail as fast as possible.
Now we have banned members comming back and not a word about it.

My party has problems too and I can see Reform Mk.2 comming back but that will be decided by the members, not by PowerCorp.

[hurley_108]

ridenrain wrote:

After ADSCAM, I was actually hoping they would back away (for a long time .. ) and clean out the rot and come back as a legitimate party that folks could trust again. Instead they slapped a new sandwitch board sign on Joe Volpe and sent him out on the campaign trail as fast as possible.
Now we have banned members comming back and not a word about it.

My party has problems too and I can see Reform Mk.2 comming back but that will be decided by the members, not by PowerCorp.

Volpe is scum, and I was so pissed when he came back late in the count and won his riding. But there is still a leadership convention, there is still the voting public to win over. If the party membership is really pissed about Ignatieff's coronation, they can split from the Liberals like Reform split from the PCs.

Face it, you're just pissed that Dion's not running the Liberals further into the ground until May.

[ridenrain]

You're not Derby so I know you would admit that there was a number of bad apples in the Liberal party. Those folks had to go but their back and the public can't have confidance that the party is honest with them still there. Without restoring trust and confidance, all their going to get are the brand voters and the disgruntled.
If the convention generates some policy that is more than a napkin sketch during a debate, I welcome it. The wishy-washy Libs policy was always my biggest frustrations.

I actually like Iggy. I just don't think he can pull the Libs to the right.

[bootlegga]

uwish wrote:

Well I for one do admit he is at least attempting to fix the problem. I don't agree with any public money for parties so I still agree with the CPC trying to kill it.

YES it was BAD timing and not the brightest political move. Harper is famous to shooting himself in the foot.

Change another 25 things in the Liberals platform and I would consider to vote for them. Still I only need two or three things changed in the CPC book.

The premise of funding still stands, if you can't get support from the 'people' directly then tough shit. I don't think the public purse supporting east coast, left handed bagpipers party because they got 10 K votes, is any representation of democracy.

In theory that's a great idea, but then the election agenda is set by the party with the biggest chequebook. You might like it now, given the Conservatives better financial picture and fund-raising means, but what happens if the Liberals ever get back to their place on top of the financial heap? Would you still support it then?

I think that only federal money should be allowed to be spent. A corollary of that is only parties with elected representatives from the last parliament receive funding. Everyone else has to get elected on their own dime. Then it's a level playing field and the best party wins, not the wealthiest. The paltry sums that the government provides is a drop in the bucket to the billions handed out in the form of tax breaks/low-interest loans to corporations.

If a party of left handed bagpipers actually got a candidate elected, than I'd be fine with funding them too. After all, they'd represent thousands of people. It's no different from UFA voters in the West in the early 20th century or the separatist Bloc in Quebec IMHO. Like their platform or not, they still represent Canadians, which to me is democracy.

[kenmore]

Well if Derby can;t I can and will help out
go libs go!

[uwish]

well boots, when someone from the Green party actually GETS a seat in the house we can talk until then those votes were basically throw aways.

And yes, I am not that partisan to say I only like the idea of grass roots funding only IF the CPC or XXX party is on top. I would stand by it if the CPC folded from lack of support.

That being said, the wealthiest party would be the one WITH the most support if it was coming from grass roots. Which would generally imply they would likely either form the government OR be well within the running. That isn't evil or bad politics, if people support a party for their platform and support them financially maybe they should form the next government at election time. In general that is how a democratic system works.

[bootlegga]

Well, under my system of funding, the Green party wouldn't get squat, because they've never elected an MP. Like I said, only parties that actually elected a rep would qualify. That would proably keep left-handed bagpipers and Alberta separatists from ever getting a cent!

And having the most money doesn't necessarily mean you are doing the best job in government. Until Chretien changed the rules for fund-raising before he left, they were usually the leaders in fund-raising. Surely you aren't going to tell me that they were the best party for the job from 1993 - 2006?

Of course, if you want ot admit that, then feel free!

[Bibbi]

ridenrain wrote:

I actually like Iggy. I just don't think he can pull the Libs to the right.

The big question is how many Liberals have NO desire whatever to be pulled to the right. If they decide NOT to go NDP, then there will be a lot of Liberals staying away from the polls in the next election.

[uwish]

I will admit that boots when you admit the CPC are the best party for the last three years

/wink