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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:44 am
 


Title: Irving Oil wants more Canadian crude for its Atlantic operations
Category: Business
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2020-04-30 06:41:19
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:44 am
 


Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:57 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?
Better talk to Quebec first. Apparently they don't have a problem with pipelines per se, just pipelines that run Alberta oil through them.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:00 am
 


PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?
Better talk to Quebec first. Apparently they don't have a problem with pipelines per se, just pipelines that run Alberta oil through them.


Pipe it as far as Toronto, put it in tankers and ship it the rest of the way.

Bonus points if it takes less than a year to implement the same tanker ban in the Great lakes as is in place in the North BC straights to Haida Gwai.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:06 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?
Better talk to Quebec first. Apparently they don't have a problem with pipelines per se, just pipelines that run Alberta oil through them.


Pipe it as far as Toronto, put it in tankers and ship it the rest of the way.

Bonus points if it takes less than a year to implement the same tanker ban in the Great lakes as is in place in the North BC straights to Haida Gwai.
Meh, just load it up on a "Saudi flagged" tanker. Problem solved. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:32 pm
 


DrCaleb wrote:
PublicAnimalNo9 wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?
Better talk to Quebec first. Apparently they don't have a problem with pipelines per se, just pipelines that run Alberta oil through them.


Pipe it as far as Toronto, put it in tankers and ship it the rest of the way.


That’s what I have been wondering. Is there any restriction on oil tankers in the St. Lawrence?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:38 pm
 


I doubt it. The Seaway was set up back when absolutely no one gave a steaming shit about the environment.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:37 pm
 


Sunnyways wrote:

That’s what I have been wondering. Is there any restriction on oil tankers in the St. Lawrence?


Only for outbound vessels carrying Canadian oil. Apparently all inbound ships that carry Saudi and American or any other countries oil are impervious to running aground, sinking or spilling oil.


Quote:
Does this mean that tanker traffic inbound with foreign oil products do not affect St. Lawrence beluga populations, or present significant environmental concerns to Canadian waters, while proposed outbound Canadian oil traffic does?

Natural Resources Canada reports that in 2016, Canada imported crude oil and equivalents from many countries, including Saudi Arabia (nine per cent), Algeria (nine per cent), Nigeria (eight per cent) and Norway (four per cent), with much of the product entering Canada through ports in Quebec, a province that consumes over 350,000 barrels per day of gasoline and diesel fuels, representing approximately 20 per cent of total Canadian oil demand. Quebec receives 25 million tonnes of crude oil and various petroleum products of which 89 per cent enters through ports in Quebec City and Montreal.

More broadly, Transport Canada estimates that there are approximately 20,000 oil tanker movements off the coasts of Canada each year. The Clear Seas Centre for Responsible Marine Shipping calculated that annual Canadian oil transported on the Pacific Coast amounts to six million tonnes, while U.S. oil tankers that transit through those Canadian waters transport six times as much, at 37 million tonnes. The estuary and Gulf of St. Lawrence import, largely through the ports of Montreal and Quebec City, receive 67 million tonnes.


https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/colum ... or-quebec/

So to answer your question. It depends on who's flag of convenience you fly. If it's Canadian the answer is yes but if it's from anywhere else the answer is no. The Beluga's have spoken.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:50 am
 


DrCaleb wrote:
Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?

You can bore everyone to tears by playing Nickelback every 10 minutes 24/7 with Canadian content laws. You can totally fuckup your military procurement with Canadian content laws to the extent that someone actually thought that the CH-124 was still in use yesterday. Put that in perspective for a minute. President Kennedy was in office when the CH-124 was first being built. That is way too fucking long to find a replacement!

If ever there was a chance for Canadian content laws to actually do some good, it is in the oil and gas sector. Irving oil should not have a choice in where they buy their oil. Canadian content laws should dictate. If I had to watch all those Beachcomber/ Danger Bay episodes on the CBC, than they can buy some Canadian crude oil. Irving oil has more gas stations in the U.S. than they do in Canada. Look how much that would help Canada with exporting refined products if the crude oil was coming from Canada instead of Venezuela. Make them buy Canadian oil. Force the pipeline through. Don't ask, tell! The Irvings have been acting like the royal family of the Maritimes for far to long now.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:01 am
 


This is actually a fairly patriotic thing for Irving to want. It's the first time I can recall them ever saying they wanted more western Canadian product to come to them. The bigger meta remains the same problem though. There's no pipeline to get the stuff to them efficiently enough, hence resorting to tankers and all the problems associated with sea shipping.

There's also no way that the anti-oil left wing in this country will sit back quietly and let this occur without a fight. No pipeline like Energy East ever being built is a given so there's no point in wasting breath discussing it. So expect them to go after shipping regulations again. Like clamping down harder on the exports from Burnaby BC with more nonsensical rules. And start charging up a campaign for enhanced regulations for the east coast and St. Lawrence River, with the rules aimed only at tankers with western Canadian product in them while the rest from the Middle East, Nigeria, and Venezuela benefit from a hands-off business-as-usual.

Just the way things are done in Canada. Enjoy the bit of national unity over COVID while it lasts because it'll end soon enough and the normal divisive regional politics will resume, especially over fossil fuels.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:25 pm
 


rickc wrote:
DrCaleb wrote:
Could we interest you in a pipeline perhaps?

You can bore everyone to tears by playing Nickelback every 10 minutes 24/7 with Canadian content laws. You can totally fuckup your military procurement with Canadian content laws to the extent that someone actually thought that the CH-124 was still in use yesterday. Put that in perspective for a minute. President Kennedy was in office when the CH-124 was first being built. That is way too fucking long to find a replacement!


A couple things here.

Yes, it took too long to find a replacement for the Sea King, but the reality is our Cyclones became operational about the same time the US President stopped using Sea Kings for Marine One.

Americans love to deride Canadian (and other country's content rules), but the point is to ensure that some part of our culture is represented in the media we consume.

American media companies have no problem using Toronto or Vancouver as a stand-in for American cities, but when was the last time you actually heard of a major film or TV show that was set there as well as shot there? They're pretty few and far between. American companies would never have made Littlest Hobo or Corner Gas or Little Mosque on the Prairie or Schitt's Creek or Kim's Convenience or even Trailer Park Boys. Many Canadian singers/groups would never have had a chance on American radio stations/MTV (Tragically Hip being the most famous one I can think of) either.

So you can like/laugh at CanCon rules all you want, but they serve Canadians well IMHO.



rickc wrote:
If ever there was a chance for Canadian content laws to actually do some good, it is in the oil and gas sector. Irving oil should not have a choice in where they buy their oil. Canadian content laws should dictate. If I had to watch all those Beachcomber/ Danger Bay episodes on the CBC, than they can buy some Canadian crude oil. Irving oil has more gas stations in the U.S. than they do in Canada. Look how much that would help Canada with exporting refined products if the crude oil was coming from Canada instead of Venezuela. Make them buy Canadian oil. Force the pipeline through. Don't ask, tell! The Irvings have been acting like the royal family of the Maritimes for far to long now.


On this I agree, we should be using oil from North America in North America, not importing it from overseas, be it Norway or Nigeria or Venezuela. However, forcing a pipeline through Quebec isn't going to happen because Trudeau doesn't have the political capital, or more importantly the will, to do so. He's barely willing to fight for an expansion of an existing pipeline through BC, nevermind a brand new pipeline through Quebec.

Even if he did, I don't see any oil company - Canadian or otherwise - wiling to spend a between $4 and $12 Billion on a coker or two for refineries down east to refine the bitumen we would ship to them - our conventional oil production has been dropping as a percentage of our overall production for years now even with fracking. That's why a lot of the oil refined in Quebec actually comes from the US Midwest, which has a glut of fracked oil.

P.S. Beachcombers :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 5:02 pm
 


Thanos wrote:
This is actually a fairly patriotic thing for Irving to want. It's the first time I can recall them ever saying they wanted more western Canadian product to come to them. The bigger meta remains the same problem though. There's no pipeline to get the stuff to them efficiently enough, hence resorting to tankers and all the problems associated with sea shipping.

There's also no way that the anti-oil left wing in this country will sit back quietly and let this occur without a fight. No pipeline like Energy East ever being built is a given so there's no point in wasting breath discussing it. So expect them to go after shipping regulations again. Like clamping down harder on the exports from Burnaby BC with more nonsensical rules. And start charging up a campaign for enhanced regulations for the east coast and St. Lawrence River, with the rules aimed only at tankers with western Canadian product in them while the rest from the Middle East, Nigeria, and Venezuela benefit from a hands-off business-as-usual.

Just the way things are done in Canada. Enjoy the bit of national unity over COVID while it lasts because it'll end soon enough and the normal divisive regional politics will resume, especially over fossil fuels.


For what it's worth, Quebec imports a large portion of its natural gas, and nearly half of its oil, from us. The amount of gas the Quebecois will be buying from us will be even bigger if they get their own LNG project in the Saguenay area going, because all their gas will be for export.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 6:53 pm
 


If there's ever been a polity where the people seem to be completely disconnected from the politicians and parties they keep electing then it has to be in Quebec. All of what you said about their fossil resource consumption and desire to export is true. In fact, for the last several years, Quebec citizens have also been the main buyers in Canada of both pickup trucks and large SUVs, totally belying the image that the province is now some kind of green anti-oil paradise. Look at where their personal purchase money goes in terms of vehicles, electrical generation, and home heating. Needless to say their province isn't a center of environmental "enlightenment" where everyone has a windmill in their back yard and their house roofs covered in solar panels.

Yet, both federally and provincially, Quebec politicians are uniformly dedicated to shutting the Canadian fossil fuel sector down entirely. There isn't an Alberta-friendly pol in either the HOC, the PMO, or the National Assembly. In fact hard-core anti-oil environmentalism is one of their main platform policies, from the hard-left wing in the Bloc to the "conservative" ones that occasionally get elected as the provincial government. As the main beneficiaries of cheaper foreign oil they really have no reason to either support their own country's domestic sector or to change their own personal living habits. The bleating of those 3000 miles away westward mean nothing to them, and they probably don't hear it at all anyway.

Just another one of Canada's "quirky" features I suppose. I don't expect this to ever change and nor should anyone else.


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