[martin14]

I don't think Israel deserves to be bombed by rockets, seems to me
you posted support for it.

I actually agree, it will be harder for whoever is in charge of Gaza
to have security when this is done.

But you are trying to imply that the rockets are being done
by individuals.. this is complete BS.

Hamas is the government in Gaza.
Hamas controls the police in Gaza.
Hamas is involved in the contruction of tunnels that imports
weapons into Gaza.
Al Aqsa is attached to Hamas.

I have posted before the only real solution to Rhodesia is for the
polpulation to retake control of the government, by arms if neccessary.

If Hamas is so weak as you insinuate, it is time for the peaceful
population of Gaza to rise up and dump these terrorists,
put in a half normal government, get control of the militants,
and cut a deal.

[DerbyX]

martin14 wrote:

I don't think Israel deserves to be bombed by rockets, seems to me
you posted support for it.

No. I posted support for responding with rocket attacks when Israel attacks them. You said Israel had a right to respond, a right you apparently believe belongs only to them.

martin14 wrote:

I actually agree, it will be harder for whoever is in charge of Gaza
to have security when this is done.

In other words Israel shouldn't be doing this becasue the Palestininans have no chance of building the infrastructure needed to minimize or eliminate them

martin14 wrote:

But you are trying to imply that the rockets are being done
by individuals.. this is complete BS.

No it isn't. Mortar attacks are easily done by single attackers but if it makes you feel better then I'll amend my response to "small individuals acting of their own accord"

martin14 wrote:

Hamas is the government in Gaza.
Hamas controls the police in Gaza.
Hamas is involved in the contruction of tunnels that imports
weapons into Gaza.
Al Aqsa is attached to Hamas.

We can't control our country enough to stop violence, even organized violence at that. If you can't imagine that those isolated mortar and rocket attacks could easily be happening without widespread approval (until they acted in a more unified way in response to Israels attacks) then clearly you don't understadn the enormity of the problem.

martin14 wrote:

I have posted before the only real solution to Rhodesia is for the
polpulation to retake control of the government, by arms if neccessary.

Rhodesias?

martin14 wrote:

If Hamas is so weak as you insinuate, it is time for the peaceful
population of Gaza to rise up and dump these terrorists,
put in a half normal government, get control of the militants,
and cut a deal.

Its not that they are weak. Its that they are clearly being supported because they were building infrastructure and Palestinians have basic needs and concerns that they vote on also.

Its clear that the bulk of your listed attacks were easily done by people acting on their own accord and that Hamas responded to Israeli aggression.

They weren't given much chance for the peaceful elements to take control because thats next to impossible when Israel launches large scale military operations every other year and supplements it with small scale ones every month or so.

[martin14]

You posted support for unguided rockets sent into Israel.
By definition they threaten civilian areas, and usually land there anyway.

Nice try on the security bit, I am not going to agree with you.
If Hamas would change its ways, it wouldn't be losing
the other things that have been built.

Its a guess, never been there, but I think the West Bank
has police stations as well, still standing too.


6000+ rockets.. thats a lot of small groups Derb.
Somone has to bring in the material, payments,design, construction, distribution,
storage, scheduling, moving, firing.

We could say some may be not Hamas-sanctioned, like the
three from Lebanon today.

Three.

And as far as supporting Hamas because of their domestic program, which
I will say as one of the main reasons they got elected in the first place,
people need to remember the foreign policy program as well.
Scape was right about Fatah being corrupt. I found it interesting
when Arrafat died, he was a billionaire. Compare that to what you
see in Gaza/West Bank and tell me who is screwing who here.

Even still, the West Bank is quiet, and Gaza is on fire, if the people
are similar, it must be different government making trouble

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX wrote:

BTW, just to set you straight, Disagreeing with Israel does not constitute anti-semitism. Thats just the dumbest argument ever considering Israelis disagree with their countries actions all the time and loads of jewish people abroad do as well.

Agreeing with those who want to kill all jews and wipe Israel off the map looks less than pro-jew to me.
Dare I say it, those of you supporting Hamas, Hezbollah and the current regime in Iran ( oh and Sid Ryan) are anti-semitic.

There, I said it....daring eh?

[DerbyX]

martin14 wrote:

You posted support for unguided rockets sent into Israel.
By definition they threaten civilian areas, and usually land there anyway.

No. You think that.

martin14 wrote:

Nice try on the security bit, I am not going to agree with you.
If Hamas would change its ways, it wouldn't be losing
the other things that have been built.

yet you did say you agree'd with it. Regardless, thats what the Palestinians say and the experts, the ones attempting to acomplish peace.

martin14 wrote:

Its a guess, never been there, but I think the West Bank
has police stations as well, still standing too.

Its more then just that. They simply cannot establish control to end all violence against Israel especially when so many of them legitimately believe they are fighting for occupied land.

martin14 wrote:

6000+ rockets.. thats a lot of small groups Derb.
Somone has to bring in the material, payments,design, construction, distribution,
storage, scheduling, moving, firing.

Fireworks are rockets. They also routinely include mortar attacks in those stats and mortars are small and simple.

martin14 wrote:

We could say some may be not Hamas-sanctioned, like the
three from Lebanon today.

Three.

And as far as supporting Hamas because of their domestic program, which
I will say as one of the main reasons they got elected in the first place,
people need to remember the foreign policy program as well.
Scape was right about Fatah being corrupt. I found it interesting
when Arrafat died, he was a billionaire. Compare that to what you
see in Gaza/West Bank and tell who is screwing who here.

Even still, the West Bank is quiet, and Gaza is on fire, if the people
are similar, it must be different government making trouble

We can go on like this for ever as can the conflict. The bottom line is that unless the Palestinians achieve a stable statehood with enough of their land back they won't ever be able to stop the violence.

Thats entirely why I posted about sending UN peacekeppers to help secure the region and prevent as many rocket attacks as possible while allowing the peaceful Palestinians to assert themselves and build the required infrastructure.

You claim that its acceptable for us to suffer deaths and violence in order to impose peace on Iraq and Afghanistan then you should realize that Israel can suffer deaths and violence if in the end it achieves peace.

As it is just googling this latest conflict simply brings up identical acts every 2 or 3 years going back a long way.

The same claims of corruption are made about our govt, the Afghan govt, the Iraq govt, Irans, Saudis, the US. All govts are corrupt. Thats because people are corrupt.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock wrote:

DerbyX wrote:

BTW, just to set you straight, Disagreeing with Israel does not constitute anti-semitism. Thats just the dumbest argument ever considering Israelis disagree with their countries actions all the time and loads of jewish people abroad do as well.

Agreeing with those who want to kill all jews and wipe Israel off the map looks less than pro-jew to me.
Dare I say it, those of you supporting Hamas, Hezbollah and the current regime in Iran ( oh and Sid Ryan) are anti-semitic.

There, I said it....daring eh?

Don't be an idiot. You just blame Islam and so all muslims and because you think like that you can't see past that bigotry.

I'm not supporting Hamas but the Palestinian people and their desire for a free state of their own.

At least the Palestinians aren't immorally invading other countries.

[Tracker]

meh, says the world.

[EyeBrock]

DerbyX wrote:

EyeBrock wrote:

DerbyX wrote:

BTW, just to set you straight, Disagreeing with Israel does not constitute anti-semitism. Thats just the dumbest argument ever considering Israelis disagree with their countries actions all the time and loads of jewish people abroad do as well.

Agreeing with those who want to kill all jews and wipe Israel off the map looks less than pro-jew to me.
Dare I say it, those of you supporting Hamas, Hezbollah and the current regime in Iran ( oh and Sid Ryan) are anti-semitic.

There, I said it....daring eh?

Don't be an idiot. You just blame Islam and so all muslims and because you think like that you can't see past that bigotry.

I'm not supporting Hamas but the Palestinian people and their desire for a free state of their own.

At least the Palestinians aren't immorally invading other countries.

I don't hate Islam. I just think it encourages it's followers to remain in the social stone ages.

Note I didn't say 'Muslims'. I said Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Sid Ryan. Anti-semites.

I'm all for Palestinians having their own place. I'm also all for Israel not being wiped off the map.

On bigots, Sid Ryan is one. I have never said I hate muslims.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian govt. and Sid Ryan definitely hate the jews.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock wrote:

I don't hate Islam. I just think it encourages it's followers to remain in the social stone ages.

Note I didn't say 'Muslims'. I said Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Sid Ryan. Anti-semites.

I'm all for Palestinians having there own place. I'm also all for Israel not being wiped off the map.

Then don't equate disagreeing with Israel as anti-semitism or support for the Palestinian people as support for Hamas or support for wiping Israel off the face of the map.

Just as Palestine has hard-liners so too does Israel. Orthodox Jews who want all the land for the Jewish people as dictated in their faith and who are often at the heart of the settlement issue.

[EyeBrock]

Where did I do that? I equate Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Sid Ryan as anti-semites.

[DerbyX]

I can say the same thing about where did I post anti-Jew statements or support it being wiped off the face of the earth.

Clearly in this thread I have posted what I believe to be a good step towards peace where both sides have a nation to call their own and a better chance for peace.

[EyeBrock]

I never said you did.

[EyeBrock]

I find it unlikely that there will be peace there while we have organisations and various Arab governments who have stated, over and over again, that they want to kill all the jews and destroy Israel.

Unlike the European jews in the 1930's and 40's, Israel will not stand idly by as modern day nazis try to eradicate them.

The real solution is to get rid of Sid Ryan.

[DerbyX]

You first post to me suggested you were.


DerbyX wrote:

Quote:

BTW, just to set you straight, Disagreeing with Israel does not constitute anti-semitism. Thats just the dumbest argument ever considering Israelis disagree with their countries actions all the time and loads of jewish people abroad do as well.

EyeBrock wrote:

Quote:

Agreeing with those who want to kill all jews and wipe Israel off the map looks less than pro-jew to me.
Dare I say it, those of you supporting Hamas, Hezbollah and the current regime in Iran ( oh and Sid Ryan) are anti-semitic.

There, I said it....daring eh?

Now I think I was just a wee bit justified thinking that but if I was wrong then sorry to have misunderstood.

[DerbyX]

EyeBrock wrote:

I find it unlikely that there will be peace there while we have organisations and various Arab governments who have stated, over and over again, that they want to kill all the jews and destroy Israel.

Unlike the European jews in the 1930's and 40's, Israel will not stand idly by as modern day nazis try to eradicate them.

The real solution is to get rid of Sid Ryan.

Might we also include the other European nations who a generation before pushed the Jews out of their countries which is why so many of them ended up in places like Poland in large numbers.

I guess its different when its us driving them away from our lands.