[DerbyX]

commanderkai wrote:

So Israel is just one nation occupying provinces that have been constantly occupied for...who knows how long. Glad to know Israel isn't the Great Satan or whatever.

No. Israel is a nation that established it self at the expense of a people using abject racist notions at a time when were knew better.

As such they can't ever complain if somebody takes their land and gives it back to the people they stole it from do they?

commanderkai wrote:

EXACTLY. Israel isn't occupying those territories for shits and giggles, but actually because they're a buffer between the Arab states that have constantly attacked Israel since its existence. Even when Israel tries to end their occupation, like in Gaza, it backfires, and thus they need to occupy it once more.

WRONG. The Ottoman empire didn't occupy them. They were subjects of the Ottoman empire no different then us and Britian. Britian didn't occupy us (though some French may disagree). Israel in the form of zionists decided way back in the 1890s and choose a land that at that time had a population that was 96% non-Jews. They decided they were going to build a Jewish state where Jews were above all others and Jewish law and religious practices would be the established religion.

"A people without a land for a land without a people". Ring a bell? The truth is that we know this to be a lie. We know it was occupied and we know from the records what religion they were because the Ottoman empire set tax rates and conscription eligibility based on religion.

The initial establishment was outright theft let alone the systematic expulsion of Palestinians from more and more villages. Up until some 60 years ago there were maps showing the region populated with villages all through out what is no called Israel and all of them were populated with people and these places had names. The zionist movement came in and they very soon went to work renaming every single village, hill-top, river, grove of tress, what have you with Jewish names taking great care to erase all traces of the people living there. They went into villages and expelled entire people and have routinely ignored UN resultions (the same UN that created Israel and the same UN you (erroneously) says supports the Iraq war) trying to rectify this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ing_Israel

commanderkai wrote:

Oh yes you have been. You've been saying the attacks in York as some part of an anti-Israeli rage. So yes, you have been justifying anti-semitism because you said yourself, after I asked if what happened at York was not anti-semitism. To quote you:

"Yes and so do you unless you are changing your position that anti-Israeli does not equate with anti-Semitism."

Tadah. You're defending anti-semitism because those students at York had NOTHING to do with Israel, with the exception that they're Jewish. So grievances against Israel now means you can attack Jews, you're justifying anti-semitism.

Nope. In fact all of that is a miscommunication although I can at least see why you thought that.

The title of the thread was about CUPE. CUPE was calling for the boycott of Israeli academics speaking at universities and I believed you were referring to a specific academic coming to speak at York. In fact if you read further along you'll see I speak directly and only about what Sid Ryan and CUPE were doing as you'll not in the very next paragraph:

DerbyX wrote:

Thats not anti-Semitism. The problem is that Israel is so closely identified with a single religion, aka Judaism, that often times disagreements with its policies are termed just that.

The US is mostly a christian nation but arguments against it aren't declared anti-chritstian even if they are declared anti-American.

No it wasn't anti-Semitic. It was a union asshole making comments above and beyond any possible union concern.

If I had been speaking about the protesting of the Jewish student group I wouldn't have said that. In fact I repeated my sentiment to Proculation in my next post as well:

DerbyX wrote:

No, they were trying to prevent an Israeli academic. Don't get me wrong though. It is profoundly wrong to prevent anybody from speaking at a university. A university is the place to confront opposing thoughts.

I was still under the impression we were speaking about the attempts by CUPE to bar Israeli academics from speaking at CDN unis.

In fact I'm still making my argument against CUPE in my debate with MacDonaill

current-events-f59/jewish-groups-launch-weekend-demonstrations-against-cupe-t72670-15.html

Its not until when he provides direct links that I realized which specific event he(you) were talking about.

Now, I'll forgive you for thinking as you do because I can see why you did. I'd probably have done the same in reverse.

ITS still not the same as the bigotry that inspired cross-burnings unrelated to any political event that blacks (and Jews) endured`and its nowhere near the level endured by the Jews during the holocaust.

I'm not condoning it but putting it into context and I don't see a lot of sympathy when its Muslim mosques getting vandalized or Muslims assaulted or Muslims treated badly simply because they are Muslims.

At least when Hillel holds pro-Israeli rallies they don't suspended and fined unlike York's SAIA

commanderkai wrote:

Both sides drove out the other, or do you forget the expelling of Jews from Arab nations during the War of Independence? Sadly, both sides did it, and this was also seen during the split between Pakistan and India.

There is only guilty party now occupying land not theirs and not allowing settlers to return to their homes. The UN knows this as the many resolutions show as do a lot of Jewish groups as I previously referred to.
http://www.jatonyc.org/ They want the Palestinins to get their homes back as they understand the reality of it.

[/quote]
So I can just claim revenge whenever I attack...let's say Muslims. They caused 9-11. I should be allowed to execute their athletes, blow up their community centres, and attack their cities with indiscriminate terrorism. Hell, better yet, I probably have some Byzantine roots in my blood, and the Moors occupied Sicily for a while. I think its time to start unleashing rage upon innocents.[/quote]

That depends. If you want a true analogy then you need to attack Christians. Aside from the Roman era driven expulsion the Jews of this modern era were fleeing European anti-semitism and were at the start welcomed by the resident Muslim population who then had their land taken from them over the great guilt of the holocaust, an act for which they were blameless.

Go for your revenge then. Attack the Vatican. Pack clean underware and hide emergency cash in a safe place.

Quote:

ITS NOT JUST GAZA. Whole areas which were until recently Palestinian towns were emptied and illegally settled.

commanderkai wrote:

But Gaza was one half of the issue, and that occupation, and even the SETTLERS were forced to leave. And then...it all backfired in Israel's face. That was probably the biggest move to peace Israel ever made, and that led to every terrorist organization to start firing rockets into Israeli towns.

Again thats full of it. I've already shown you the evidence of town after town where the residents were forced to leave and whose homes were then occupied by Jewish settlers who renamed the town and now consider it Israeli land. The rockets are being fired at those towns by people who were either kicked out themselves or their children.

commanderkai wrote:

Get this through your head. Attacking Jews in some fit of rage against Israel is not justified. Not all Jews are Israeli, and not all Israelis are Jews. If let's say those Arab/Muslim students attacked "Jews against the Occupation" home offices, would you call that justification because of whatever Israel did?

YOU get this through your head. You can't claim that sort of violence is unjustified when you condone the violence of the Iraq war.

What does that make you? What level of bigot are you when you condone the killing of innocent people in a war based and fueled on anti-Muslim hatred and revenge for an act of terrorism they didn't commit.

AND you know this. You know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no Yellow cake, no WMDs and was no threat to us in the least yet you support it. Whats worse you use some lame UN resolution justification, proven wrong all the while no doubt fully agree with Israels non-compliance with each and every UN resolution made against them.

Glass houses you say? Don't you dare vilify others for using violence when you support fully the use of violence for your own reasons. You might have a leg to stand on if you abhored violence from all sides but you openly post support of violence.

commanderkai wrote:

You're justifying anti-semitism, and you're pretending you're being called an anti-semite because you're against Israel. But really, your justification of the attacks at York show you're nothing but a little worm of an anti-semite.

Of course I've proven you wrong on that but let me just say you are far worse then an anti-semite. You are a bigot in the worst order who feigns outrage over supposed actions of one person while he himself holds up in the belief that his violence is morally justified and his beliefs morally superior.

If you are truly concerned about anti-semitism then why aren't you opposed to zionism?