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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:37 am
 


Title: Jim Prentice comment spurs #PrenticeBlamesAlbertans hashtag
Category: Provincial Politics
Posted By: DrCaleb
Date: 2015-03-05 06:33:25
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:37 am
 


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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:27 am
 


Sure. Albertans have voted Conservative with maniacal fervor, assuring all Canadians that only the Consevatives know how to govern Alberta, any other party would lead to ruin. But it's the Conservatives fault for making Albertans vote for them.

Man, so many Albertans just don't want to take any responsibility at all, run deficits during boom times, act like pigs at the trough, but any troubles with that must always be somebody else's fault. If it isn't those dastardly Liberals in Ottawa, it's got to be their alien overlords, the Conservatives.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:34 pm
 


Everybody knows that Ontario's really to blame.


... somehow, anyway.

The Bankers! That's it!

Those Eastern bankers are to blame!

Oh, and the CNR. That's in Queebec.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:55 pm
 


It's still all that damn Trudeau's (pere) fault.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:40 pm
 


Haven't heard anyone blame easterners or Trudeau. Most Albertans that I know are all aware that we rely too much on resources, and that it bites us in the ass every couple decades.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:51 pm
 


If Albertans are aware of relying too much on resources, why is CBC telling me, as I write this, that there's an uproar about Prentice's comments.

It's not about relying on resources either. You gotta use what you've got. It's not as if the govt can wave a magic wand and create alternative sources of income for Albertans - not really situated to be a manufacturing or IT mecca. Tourism isn't going to be your savior either.

What I hold Albertans responsible for is refusing to have a tax regime that would have allowed it to keep feeding the heritage fund and living a more modestly. It seems Albertans don't know that Alberta relies on oil and so there will be ups and downs. Or at least they seem to forget it every time times get good that resources are cyclical and treat it like the boom will never end. Let's be the only province without a sales tax, even tho economists tell us it's one of the better forms of taxation. Let's keep taxes low in good times and run deficits, because hey, the good times will just keep going. That I can't understand. All democracies do this to some extent, because the push is on during good times to not raise taxes but to spend, then have to spend to stimulate in hard times. But Alberta seems to take this to a whole new level.

It is time to look in the mirror, because there's nobody else around to blame. Time to look at Norway, learn some lessons. That's a good mirror to look to.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:35 pm
 


Unsound Unsound:
Haven't heard anyone blame easterners or Trudeau. Most Albertans that I know are all aware that we rely too much on resources, and that it bites us in the ass every couple decades.


Trudeau is long in his tomb, now. If any of you seriously blamed him for your situation in 2015, you have joined that long list of "victim" cultures that are frozen into inaction because they are so convinced that someone else its responsible for their fate.

You know the genus ... So-and-so did something bad to my ancestors 300 years ago and therefore, you owe me a living.

I know in my heart that most of Alberta has not slid into the sniveling abyss of victimhood.


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CKA Uber
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:06 pm
 


No point joining in on this one. Just the usual smarmy hate from the same old suspect on display. I hate to think what Alberta could have been built into if we hadn't been forced to give away tens, or even hundreds, of billions of dollars away in transfer payments over the last forty years but whatever. No good comes out of trying to play 'what if' any more than there is in talking to some trollish asshole.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:29 pm
 


Yep. everybody else's fault but alberta's.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:26 pm
 


Unsound Unsound:
Haven't heard anyone blame easterners or Trudeau. Most Albertans that I know are all aware that we rely too much on resources, and that it bites us in the ass every couple decades.


The 'friendly' ( :roll: ) advice being given by people from BC and Ontario on how to run a provincial economy remains endlessly hilarious.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:51 pm
 


Really the same friendly advice Albertans were given when times were good for them - it was so obvious. And some Albertans of course agreed with it. But would the majority listen? Noooooo.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:13 am
 


I have thoughts and opinions. Surprise?

Hate to point this out, but diversification happens neither in a vacuum nor is it a modicum for economic stability and flourishing in and of itself. The two examples commonly used in providing remedy to Alberta include Manitoba and Ontario, neither exactly centres of Canadian economic success in recent years. Nor is this the first time Alberta would have tried diversifying; the seventies were full of capital expenditures and companies being purchased to improve Albertan economic diversity (remember Pacific Western Airlines? Your kids won't), and it failed. The eighties and nineties were full of pushes for the "Albertan advantage." It was great for oilfield derived industry and even created some newer, smaller sectors over time. Failed in delivering significant diversification. Indeed, there is no shortage of folks pointing out past failures to produced diversification, both now and then. This isn't a new idea, it's not innovative, nor has Alberta been particularly successful in various fashions over 40 years of trying to figure out how to diversify our economy, meaning it's not particularly helpful. That columnists presume we should continue failed panacea is disappointing in the least, since it paints diversification as a problem of Albertan's will and not as a problem of historical reality.

It's even stranger in my view when people bring up diversification in reducing the share of the pie that is resource related. If the suggestion is not to reduce the oil economy but instead expand other sectors in contrast to it, it begins with the presumption that there is an excess of employable capacity to begin with, and some great amount of available economic capacity just waiting to be used elsewhere. It also presumes that there are sectors that could outgrow the energy industry across decades to retain that proportional slice of our economic pie. If you grow 4% but oil grows 8%, you'll be bigger, but our economy will be less diverse. Oil and gas are big in our province and as a direct result most new migrant workers from the rest of Canada and the world tend to be in relative fields when they arrive. We have a limit to just how many homes and condos can be built to house all these new workers, and how many people can even successfully move to the province to begin with. Most with skills end up in related fields. The most successful businesses are going to be those related to oil fields. There is a limited amount that fields can grow outside of a behemoth that neither Alberta nor the rest of Canada wants to slow down, especially since Ontario's expectation that manufacturing will grow with a lack of oil prices hasn't materialized. A fact that Ontario's government really needs to pay attention to after years of trying to keep various sectors of their own ailing economy afloat.

What it means is that, during boom times, for Alberta to be the most successful, we inherently end up with the most successful business buying out more of that economic capacity, and give bigger returns. Even those successful peripheral businesses which do exist in Alberta once again become a smaller part of the pie as a highly successful industry grows further. Any correction for diversity has to be large enough to withstand such powerful booms to retain a larger slice of the pie. Without a massive amount of available capital and labour, Alberta won't be able to swing out of that like other energy centers that have. We don't have a massive population like Texas, and we see capital transferring out of the province for remittances and various transfers at prestigious rates. It says something however that our more economically "balanced" neighbours will continue to be net recipients from a weakened Alberta.

There's also physical realities that Alberta has to deal with. Provinces sell what they have. Alberta has essentially three sectors that Prentice will focus on; energy (26+%), agriculture (2%) and tourism/culture (5%) (values from above CBC article quoting StatsCan). Already this should show just how problematic a presumption of easy diversification is, when what we are looking to is a troubled agricultural industry and a tourism industry that essential falls into WEM/Stampede/Banff/Jasper. Strategies for how to diversify these industries, or indeed even grow them into anything to counter the behemoth on the balance sheet, are missing in action from most suggestions being offered. We have a lot of oil, wheat, cows and nice looking mountains. Guess what we can sell?

Which brings us to the next tier of suggestions, often from the same people, suggesting diversification strategies that tie directly into energy. Why not, suggests our premier, invest a ton of money into energy research (to the tune of 2.27 billion dollars) in the hopes of changing our current energy-based economy? Building a thought economy would be great; building it around a sector we're trying to diversify from is not, but it's what expertise we have in spades. Others suggest we refine oil at home, or work on building service sectors for energy, as if those will not be tied to the same fate with world oil prices or that the latter doesn't happen organically. Even suggestions relating to how to encourage entrepreneurs falls into the idea of "let industry guide it," as if the majority will not end up going after niches in a roaring energy sector.

Andrew Leach (Doctor of Economics, U of A) basically speaks the truth when he says that governments don't do well at building new sectors of the economy. Energy royalties would have to be used to build a whole new sector if successful, further distorting our balance sheet. Such investment forces us to risk losing our "Alberta Advantage" and what benefits it does bring to current Alberta industry. We have a small tech sector and a renewable sector but neither show growth the same to the oil industry, which keeps it's piece of the pie.

We also have to deal with competing arguments for what to do. Diversifying our economy won't be helped if new sectors are taxed more heavily, and suggestions to raise the corporate tax to cover the revenue gap directly harm the capacity for new sectors to develop and our current sectors to grow, inclusive of those that could improve diversification. Others suggest taxes, fees or structures that bigger companies can more easily absorb but causes other sectors to struggle, like general sales taxes, significant wage hikes and so forth. Politically, the oil sands are hobbled by inaction in BC, Ontario, Ottawa and the USA, while various groups float ideas that could damage the one source of revenue Alberta has to bankroll any such diversification, whether through avoiding tax increases like corporate taxes or through taxing what industry we do have harder at the federal level.

At the end of the day, a lot of Albertans look at numbers and notice they aren't that bad. We have had incredibly low average unemployment through boom and bust compared to our neighbouring provinces. Diversity of economy there has not improved employment rates, nor economic robustness. Any existing tips are coming from economies which continue to function in a less economically successful situation than Alberta even with the oil slump.

In my own conclusion and opinion, sure, Alberta needs diversification. Saying so doesn't make it happen, nor have popularly suggested mechanisms for how to get there had the staying power in the past. Any diversification we achieve will eventually become a smaller piece of the pie as the energy economy rebounds and we end up back in our starting situation. We should, however, still support growth of new companies and industries, even if it won't lead to diversification, in my view. In line with that, I usually end up agreeing with bootlegga; we should be putting extra money into a fund for the future and focusing now on making sure volatility pays into that fund in the good times but doesn't detract from it in the bad times. My stance is that to meet these goals we should slash corporate taxes (which makes up only roughly 10-12% of government revenue) and de-flatten our income taxes/cut some spending (although considering infrastructural frailty I'm not sure that's a viable solution to retain current standards of living, nor do Albertans in general according to that budget poll want major sectors cut) to make up the current shortfall, and perhaps a highly focused sales tax on certain goods or services that don't lend well to entrepreneurship. Federally, we'd have to lobby for a reduction in transfers expected from our coffers to help with this, which would be in the long-term interest of provinces dependent on oil exports for some revenue (I doubt any significant amount could be gleaned from this) or hope more political capital can be used to move our oil so we don't depend on a discounted rate to Americans (unlikely to change provincial stances). Albertans can sustain this longer than other provinces could and I think we will have to if we want to divorce our government and welfare from resource volatility in the long-term.

Maybe one day we will be a big enough population and consistently open economic capacity to successfully diversify, but I don't think we are going to be there for a long while. For now, it should be no surprised that organically Alberta will trend towards energy revenue as we specialize like most regions of Canada do.

Just my thoughts, interpretations, opinions and remembrances at midnight anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:44 am
 


The Heritage Fund depletion is an interesting argument. The comparisons with Norway and Alaska are easy to use but the miss an important factor. Norway is a completely homogenous culture where the oil industry is nationalized and there is no requirements for transfer payments. In other words Norway was never in a position where 25% or more of their wealth was stolen and given to places like the Maritimes or Quebec. Norway could save in a way that Alberta couldn't because over a quarter of their revenue simply wasn't given away to someone else. Alaska, thanks to the various oddities of American politics and state's rights, also isn't obligated to cough up anything to the federal government for dispersal elsewhere. It's Alaska's resource so Alaska and pretty much no one else gets to decide what they do with it. I'm not saying that the Alberta PC's wouldn't have botched the entire thing if they didn't have the federal government coming in and stealing from us. They probably would have just based on the nature of the people who form the upper ranks in that party. But Alberta is clearly subjected to interferences and confiscation by the central power in this country that Alaska and Norway don't have to deal with, therefore the analogy between the three jurisdictions is pretty much false.

I'd like to imagine a situation where by a different quirk of geography, where we weren't residing over the liquefied remains of a vast primeval forest, that Alberta didn't have any oil resources at all. There wouldn't be much out here at all, just a couple of smallish cities that revolved around agriculture, ranching, forestry, and the railroads. Just the TransCanada winding it's way through a much quieter and emptier prairie. It would be a different place altogether, much simpler and also quite diminished. The schadenfreude for me would be that the rest of Canada would be diminished too, that the smarmy hate-filled shits out there would have had to have gotten their money from somewhere else because the cash-filled wallet on the eastern side of the Rockies would never have existed. In the parlance of people like Tony Soprano, because the transfer payment system resembles nothing else but gangsters kicking a huge portion of their profit upstairs to the bosses, they would have had to find some other place to wet their beaks. I suppose on some level I shouldn't be this spiteful, wishing diminishment onto others. But considering that so many of them are wishing the exact same thing on me, and on the place that I live in, and that they've always wished it with a spite and contempt that dwarfs in comparison what I feel for them, I'm not going to waste too much time feeling any guilt over it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:08 am
 


Thanos Thanos:
No point joining in on this one. Just the usual smarmy hate from the same old suspect on display. I hate to think what Alberta could have been built into if we hadn't been forced to give away tens, or even hundreds, of billions of dollars away in transfer payments over the last forty years but whatever. No good comes out of trying to play 'what if' any more than there is in talking to some trollish asshole.

Ontarians feel the same way about transfer payments .... tens of billions every year. Even when we were classified as "have not", we we paying out billions more than we were getting back. Ontario is the big cash cow in Confederation. Alberta is #2.


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